Question
This may be a forewarning to anyone who is selling photographs on other Ebay sites (particularly the USA site) and has been enjoying one of the areas that has retained a reasonably strong market.
I regularly trawl the Ebay UK photograph categories to buy and just spent 20 minutes trying to find them. Ebay UK has not only moved the category, but entirely removed the old categories (as evidenced by the "space" for the category that is shown at the top of this auction). The photograph categories were under Collectibles, as are the main photograph categories on the USA site, and sort of aligned with the USA site although, from memory, they only included these sub categories:
CDV & Cabinet Photographs
Viewmaster
Other Photographs
I am not sure whether there was a seperation between Pre-1940 and Post 1940, as I was only interested in earlier images.
Now there are NO categories for photography under collectibles, they have been moved to:
Antiques & Art/ Art/ Photographs
and two sub-categories:
Pre-1940
1940-Now
A Little Piece Of History. My understanding of why it happened may be cynical and wrong, but on the USA site, a photographic category was placed under the Art & Antiques section (subsequently seperated to just being the ART section), about 2 or 3 weeks after the ability to list in two categories was announced.
To my view, for general photographic images, the market remained in the collectibles section, which had already developed a strong and reliable following, and there has never been reason to list in the art categories, for my type of stock. As a buyer I have never found reason to take more than the occassional look at the Art/Photographic Images section of Ebay's USA site, because I never found anything to suit me there. Now, my view and logic may very easily (and probably is) flawed, BUT if it is, it only highlights how breaking down and splitting up the market, whatever the motives, only removes buyers (and thus competitive bidding) from large sections of the market place. The aim should be to consolodate bidding and encourage higher prices by having all photographic images (feel welcome to insert words like Lladdro or Royal Doulton here instead) in one area where all buyers can find them, instead of creating two or more "camps" of buyers who by watching specific areas, unknowingly do not compete with each other and miss other items that may be of interest to them.
These are fundamentals of auction - the more competition that is encouraged, and he more buyers who are competing for stock, will increase the auction results (price and clearance rate).
Implications: AT this stage it is hard to say. Either the USA site will follow suit and move all photographic image categories over to the ART categories (which must be disruptive to the market through the transition), or the chances of your photographic items listed under collectibles, being seen and bid on by UK buyers who will now browse the Art categories will substantially drop.
Conversely, will the American buyers browsing the broader photographic categories in the Collectibles section even see the UK Pound listings for the type of items they are seeking? Certainly there is no way of knowing whether this lot of American Importance, would have made the same sort of money in the new location, but it is evidence that the categories were working in the location where they somewhat aligned with the American categories.
If the USA site is not going to move the photographica to the ART categories, then we are seeing a further dilution of the market as the "regional" sites simply change and shift categories further and further away from actually being consistant throughout the entire Ebay system. This is detrimental, as it reduces the chances of people using each site from actually seeing listings that have been listed on the other sites, again diluting the auction market instead of creating auction competition. I was asked by an Austrralian who has been invited to an Australian equivalent of Voices for what I felt should be put to the Australian management to help the Ebay experience - whilst most of what I would like to suggest would never be entertained, I did suggest that trying to create consistant categories on all of the linked Ebay sites would be beneficial to all sellers and increase competition with those who extended beyond the default settings of only seeing the items in your own country. I doubt that that suggestion will ever be considered by Ebay management as they seem intent on making every site more and more independant and less aligned. Management won't care but this really is detrimental to what could have been a major international market place, which has instead been diluted (but not killed).
Just how I see it, Kevin
Answer
Kevin
I'm always impressed by your comments.
While many of us often complain, some might even say whine, you bring a base of long experience, category insight, eBay and marketplace history, customer perspective and general business common sense to the discussion.
I don't feel any one action by eBay was/is so damaging to the user base as to justify a broad negative attitude.
A broad negative attitude is completely justified, IMO, because eBay repeatedly makes changes that damage the user base, seem totally unaware of the negative consequences and make no effort to rectify the new problems they create or to provide assistance in the transition.
I'm certain there are reasons behind each change and I fully accept they have both the "big" picture view and the right to make changes.
What the totally seem to lack is any insight to the problems they cause and any willingness to work with sellers.
If they stepped forward and said "We are making changes, these are the reasons, we understand your concerns, we believe it will make things better because.., we will help in this way, what suggestions do you have" it would have both better results and improve the attitude among users.
Of course, they would have some problems with changes that are only in their interest and listening to customers isn't always easy but it would have to be better, in the long run, than their present path.
I realize they have "Voices" and I do believe that has been productive but little is heard of them lately.
Anyway, thanks for the time, effort, insight and care you bring to understanding problems.
I often feel pain and yell. You explain why it hurts, how it came to be and return some logic to what often starts as mostly emotion.
Answer
Hi Kevin. There's discussion about the category changes on the UK Category Board. It appears that they will be reinstating a Photograph Images category in Collectibles in mid-April. Another interesting observation ... they don't announce these category changes on the Announcement Board. http://community.here.com/infopop/em...s/icon_eek.gif
**New Collectables Category Changes - Comments Welcome**
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jsp?forum=5&thread=100019596&start=0&msRang e=125
Post #85
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hi there,
I have just managed to find 'Photographic Images' formerly listed in the Collectables section, now to be found under the Antiques-Art banner, nice of you to tell us that it was being moved! And I thought you had taken it off to clear out all the soft-porn that seems to make up 75% of the section (no I'm not complaining!)
However there seems to be a great number of disatisfied sellers out there who are now homeless due to your unanounced changes. Whilst I am all for updating things when required, the message has got to be...IF IT AINT BROKE DON'T FIX IT!!!
And please remember WE PAY YOUR WAGES.
All the best sbac1939. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Post # 93
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>sbac1939:
Apologies for what seems to have been an erroneous move of the Viewmaster items to the Art category. The rationale was to try to create a single destination on eBay for buyers to go to find artistic or vintage photographs.
I will consider reinstating a Photographic Images category in Collectables.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Post #102
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>sbac1939:
The signs idea is a good one - however our site can be remarkably inflexible when it comes to setting up helpful things like that quickly. I will reinstate Photographic Images in Collectables in April - thanks for your forbearance until then.
Regards
Richard<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Proposed changes to the Art category
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jsp?forum=5&thread=300021509&start=0&msRang e=104
Post #71
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Richard:
as I have been listing in the Photographic Images section for nearly a year now, and I usually browse through it a few times every week I can assure you that it is not as normal. I am familiar with everyone who lists in there.
Normally this category runs to 11 to 13 pages of listings, however since the chages this week it has grown to 45 - 47 pages, so clearly these new listings must have come from somewhere. I can't imagine that the sellers of autographed images would have all deliberately chosen to list under Art since wedsnesday, so I can only assume that the listings were moved there by Ebay.
I had a look at the Collectibles Category Changes thread, and there was a seller there who was complaining that his photos and viewmaster slides had been moved to Art, which you responded to - so as you can see I am not imagining this.
It is not just up to us sellers to do all the policing, since obviously the changes that are made by Ebay have an enormous effect on us. As the current Photographs section is unusable - and I'm not exaggerating here, since no buyer is going to want to browse through the inappropriate listings which outnumber the correctly placed ones by three to one - I will not be listing in there unless it is fixed.
I appreciate that you have difficult task here, and also that your tone is very conciliatary, especially considering the tone of some of our postings <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Post #94
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Hi Richard,
I'm concerned that it is now over a week since the category changes took place and the photography section has not returned to normal. There are still dozens of inappropriate listings being made every day, it looks as if all the sellers that were moved are now making this their permanent home - is there anything that Ebay can do to remedy this?
It would be a shame if this error became a permanent fixture.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Post #96
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>The photo listings are slowly draining into Music/ Movies, but only slowly. It may persist as a problem until the Collectables: Photographic Images category is reinstated in mid-April. As ever I'm sorry about this, but there's little we can do to change behaviour in the mean time.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blanche
Answer
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>It appears that they will be reinstating a Photograph Images category in Collectibles in mid-April. Another interesting observation ... they don't announce these category changes on the Announcement Board. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Incredible! Not just the turmoil of a transition as the categories simply get moved, but the double turmoil as they take 6 or 7 weeks to simply reverse what they have done unnannounced.
Yes, after I posted I checked The eBay UK Announcement Board and there is absolutely no hint that this change was happening.
However, I did learn one thing from The eBay UK Announcement Board, if you decide that you are adversely affected by having your listings shifted mid auction without your approval or anything to let buyers know where they actually are and decide not to pay for those listings, you will be covered by this little gem http://community.here.com/infopop/em.../icon_wink.gif :
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>*** Amendment to the Fees Policy***
Date: 18/02/04 Time: 07:04:03 PM GMT
With effect from Wednesday 3rd March, we will be amending the Fees Policy to allow us to refer to a debt collection agency the accounts of those users who are very late in paying their outstanding eBay fees and who still have not paid their eBay fees after our reminders and warnings. The collection agency will also charge those users a proportionate and reasonable fee for the collection of the unpaid eBay fees which will vary according to the amount owed.
This announcement constitutes 14 days advance notice of the amendment to the Fees Policy, as required under Clause 6 of the User Agreement.
For the complete Fees Policy, please visit http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/fees.html.
Regards,
The eBay.co.uk Team <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Answer
I saw that little GEM as well. LOL
Blanche
Answer
In response to the following post made by mybd-1 (post # 68) regarding no official announcements for the category changes:
http://forums.ebay.co.uk/thread.jsp?forum=5&thread=100019596&start=0&msRang e=125
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>mybd-i (322 )(view author's auctions)
24/02/04 9:00 PM (# 68 of 125)
I'm not happy about these changes at all. These kind of changes deserve a major announcement on the homepage, instead of which, unless you regularly use the forums, which I and a lot of other sellers don't, you would know nothing about them. I've had one of my listings changed to another catagory, which was obscure, and has no relation to what I'm selling. I've been forced to add it to a second catagory, because I can't change the main catagory, so it's costing me extra money.
These changes have dramatically altered the way people are able to see the listings. I don't like them, don't think they're an improvement and would urge eBay to think again.
Regards,
Alan.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Richard responds that they can't take up precious homepage space for changes that only affect a few percent of the users:
Post # 71
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>mybd-i:
We simply can't announce every category change on the homepage. Please consider the full picture - even the biggest set of changes to our biggest categories only affect a few percent of our users, and it's not realistic to take up homepage space with announcements like these.
We mail several hundred top buyers and sellers to participate on the boards, in a process that usually lasts several months. We can't include everyone.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Well sure.... that makes sense. http://community.here.com/infopop/em...n_confused.gif http://community.here.com/infopop/em...n_rolleyes.gif
Blanche
Answer
Customer service at it's ..... Ebayest.
Umm, you would think that they could have at least wasted some space on the announcement board....
Hmmmm, Kevin
Answer
YOWZA! That thread is scary Blanche. Well the bigger picture being used is Richard's personal bigger picture, and I suspect it is a testament to his own ego.
Whilst playing cards are back under Collectibles:Paper as they are on every other site, I was totally appalled by this massaging of Richard by Richard:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Julia_w – With regard to playing cards, you may be aware that we renamed the toys category toys & Games last month. In this category there is a playing cards leaf under the Games category. I am keen for this to become the new home for playing cards as I personally feel they sit better there, what do you think?<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is not about the interests of UK sellers, there has clearly been no consideration (at that point) of how removing the playing cards from an Internationally placed category will affect international sales, competition and the prices of UK goods - this is just Richard deciding what is best.
And whilst Richard concedes that he has made mistakes with bottle categories (or the deletion thereof), it is still another 2 months before repairs to the damage will be made:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>deepee42:
You're quite right. I will reverse my earlier position and reinstate the Bottles category at the top level - sadly this can only happen as part of the May changes.
gezt4sw:
Thanks for the list - I will incorporate it into some suggested May changes in due course.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
This is ludicrous, this is interfering with people's livelihoods and incomes, just because an employee of Ebay thinks that he "personally" knows best. This interferes with trade, and it interferes with Ebay's own revenue, and yet I can not see this employee having their authority to make such decisions reduced. Instead he just takes months to remove the damage he has caused, and affects many people (and his employer) in the process.
I am ropeable from opening that thread, and I have had a shower and breakfast since doing so and before making this post.
I appreciate that no change or action will suit everybody, but Why can't Ebay employ some people who actually understand the auction process, can appreciate the implications of their actions before they enforce them, and can actually see how full access to the international market place by aligning categories across all of the regional sites will actually help both Ebay itself and the client base which chooses to sell internationally.
http://community.here.com/infopop/em...s/icon_mad.gif , Kevin
Answer
reston_ray posted
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> they have both the "big" picture view <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Bad, bad pun.
They have just moved the "big" picture: into Art.
Bill
Answer
King Richard!! Who knew? http://community.here.com/infopop/em...n_rolleyes.gif
Blanche