Question
What's this all about?
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/marketing.shtml
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>User Agreement Clarification: Further Explaining Ownership Rights for Purchased Items
Date: 10/08/03 Time: 03:14:24 PM PDT
eBay is making a clarification to our User Agreement to make sure that members understand that buyers and sellers can make any arrangement they would like for transferring ownership of an item bought and sold through the site.
eBay seeks to provide a venue that allows anyone to buy or sell just about anything, at any time, from anywhere - allowing our members to complete the transaction in whatever way is most convenient for them. Because we do not take ownership of items listed on our site, we cannot and do not transfer ownership of a good from one user to another, under applicable commercial laws (such as California Commercial Code § 2401(2) and Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2)). Instead, the transfer of ownership remains up to the seller and the buyer, who may arrange whatever procedure suits them best.
Although eBay members have always enjoyed this flexibility, most members follow the default Uniform Commercial Code Rules, and agree that the buyer becomes the lawful owner of an item purchased from the seller when the seller delivers it to the buyer and the buyer has actually received it. We are updating sections 3.1 and 4 of the User Agreement to make sure that all eBay buyers and sellers know that they may arrange their own logistics of a transfer of ownership, allowing all of our members to benefit from the flexibility of the person-to-person trading platform that eBay provides.
If you have any questions about other provisions of our User Agreement, please refer to our User Agreement Frequently Asked Questions.
Regards,
eBay<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Sections 3.1 and 4 of the User Agreement: http://pages.ebay.com/help/community/png-user.html
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>eBay is a Venue.
3.1 Online Auctions. Although we are commonly referred to as an online auction web site, it is important to realize that we are not a traditional "auctioneer". Instead, our site acts as a venue to allow anyone to offer, sell, and buy just about anything, at anytime, from anywhere, in a variety of formats, including a fixed price format and an auction-style format commonly referred to as an "online auction". We are not involved in the actual transaction between buyers and sellers. As a result, we have no control over the quality, safety or legality of the items advertised, the truth or accuracy of the listings, the ability of sellers to sell items or the ability of buyers to buy items. We cannot ensure that a buyer or seller will actually complete a transaction.
4. Bidding and Buying.
As a buyer, you are obligated to complete the transaction with the seller:
if you purchase an item through one of our fixed price formats; or
if you are the highest bidder at the end of an auction (meeting the applicable minimum bid or reserve requirements) and your bid is accepted by the seller, unless the item is listed in a category under the Non-Binding Bid Policy or the transaction is prohibited by law or by this Agreement.
By bidding on an item you agree to be bound by the conditions of sale included in the item's description so long as those conditions of sale are not in violation of this Agreement or unlawful. Bids are not retractable except in exceptional circumstances, such as: when the seller materially changes the item's description after you bid; a clear typographical error is made; you cannot authenticate the seller's identity; or when the seller does not confirm your purchase in the Half.com area of our services. If you choose to bid on mature audience items or items that are restricted to adult use, you are certifying that you have the legal right to purchase such items.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blanche
Answer
There's been a longstanding discussion and disagreement on these boards re: when title transfers to the buyer, and whether the seller is responsible for the item until it's in the buyer's hands, or only until seller delivers the item to a common carrier (ie the Post Office or UPS).
I'd guess that buyers and sellers have turned to eBay to arbitrate these issues and take sides during disputes. And eBay is (wisely, in my view) staying out of it, pointing users to the relevant law, and leaving it up to the buyers and sellers to resolve disagreements on these issues.
Answer
What's this all about?
It's about "not reponsable for loss or damage if buyer doesn't purchase insurance" and "FOB origin" vs. "FOB Destination".
Title can change hands either "when turned over to carrier" or "when delivered", depending on the terms of the sale. eBay is clarifying that it is permited to use terms like "not reponsable for loss or damage if buyer doesn't purchase insurance" or "FOB origin".
As eBay says:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> Although eBay members have always enjoyed this flexibility, most members follow the default Uniform Commercial Code Rules, and agree that the buyer becomes the lawful owner of an item purchased from the seller when the seller delivers it to the buyer and the buyer has actually received it. We are updating sections 3.1 and 4 of the User Agreement to make sure that all eBay buyers and sellers know that they may arrange their own logistics of a transfer of ownership, allowing all of our members to benefit from the flexibility of the person-to-person trading platform that eBay provides. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
If the terms are not spelled out it defaults to ownership transfering when the item is delivered.
"If you want to make an apple pie from scratch, you must first create the universe." - Carl Sagan
Answer
Sounds to me like eBay is concerned about a future lawsuit and this is a CYA.
Answer
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR> eBay seeks to provide a venue that allows anyone to buy or sell just about anything, at any time, from anywhere - allowing our members to complete the transaction in whatever way is most convenient for them <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
and this is the winner of the
Biggest pile of BS of the year AWARD.....
as long as it matches every ebay staffers opinion of a "legal" by their rules
as long as it is legal to sell said item
as long as it is not an endangered species
as long as it is not a vero member
as long as as long as as long as as long as....and so on....
http://community.here.com/infopop/em...on_biggrin.gif
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Answer
I'm including the relevant part of eBay's announcement above along with the referenced Uniform Commercial Code - § 2-401(2) which is bolded:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Because we do not take ownership of items listed on our site, we cannot and do not transfer ownership of a good from one user to another, under applicable commercial laws (such as California Commercial Code § 2401(2) and Uniform Commercial Code § 2-401(2)). Instead, the transfer of ownership remains up to the seller and the buyer, who may arrange whatever procedure suits them best. Although eBay members have always enjoyed this flexibility, most members follow the default Uniform Commercial Code Rules, and agree that the buyer becomes the lawful owner of an item purchased from the seller when the seller delivers it to the buyer and the buyer has actually received it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Uniform Commercial Code - § 2-401(2) is BOLDED below:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/ucc/2/2-401.html
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>[b]U.C.C. - ARTICLE 2 - SALES
..PART 4. TITLE, CREDITORS AND GOOD FAITH PURCHASERS
§ 2-401. Passing of Title; Reservation for Security; Limited Application of This Section.
Each provision of this Article with regard to the rights, obligations and remedies of the seller, the buyer, purchasers or other third parties applies irrespective of title to the goods except where the provision refers to such title. Insofar as situations are not covered by the other provisions of this Article and matters concerning title become material the following rules apply:
(1) Title to goods cannot pass under a contract for sale prior to their identification to the contract (Section 2-501), and unless otherwise explicitly agreed the buyer acquires by their identification a special property as limited by this Act. Any retention or reservation by the seller of the title (property) in goods shipped or delivered to the buyer is limited in effect to a reservation of a security interest. Subject to these provisions and to the provisions of the Article on Secured Transactions (Article 9), title to goods passes from the seller to the buyer in any manner and on any conditions explicitly agreed on by the parties.
(2) Unless otherwise explicitly agreed title passes to the buyer at the time and place at which the seller completes his performance with reference to the physical delivery of the goods, despite any reservation of a security interest and even though a document of title is to be delivered at a different time or place; and in particular and despite any reservation of a security interest by the bill of lading
(a) if the contract requires or authorizes the seller to send the goods to the buyer but does not require him to deliver them at destination, title passes to the buyer at the time and place of shipment; but
(b) if the contract requires delivery at destination, title passes on tender there.
(3) Unless otherwise explicitly agreed where delivery is to be made without moving the goods,
(a) if the seller is to deliver a document of title, title passes at the time when and the place where he delivers such documents; or
(b) if the goods are at the time of contracting already identified and no documents are to be delivered, title passes at the time and place of contracting.
(4) A rejection or other refusal by the buyer to receive or retain the goods, whether or not justified, or a justified revocation of acceptance revests title to the goods in the seller. Such revesting occurs by operation of law and is not a "sale".<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>
Blanche
Answer
User Agreement Update
Notice Date: October 10, 2003
Effective Date: October 10, 2003
Added PayPal Buyer Protection Policy. Updated Buyer Complaint Policy to reflect discontinuance of Additional Protection for eBay Auctions. Added U.K. eligibility information to Seller Protection Policy, and clarified requirements to ship to address provided on Transaction Details page and to confirm that the transaction is listed as "Seller Protection Policy Eligible." Updated Privacy Policy to include information about the Merchant Referral Bonus. Updated Payments (Sending, Receiving, and Withdrawals) Policy with information about adding and confirming a Canadian bank account and to add Italy to list of countries which may withdraw funds from their PayPal account to a local bank account. Updated main User Agreement to fix typo and add Gift Certificates to Section 10.
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~Weaving thru life on a silver cloud~
www.simplybaskets.com
www.simplynantucketbaskets.com
*Abe's* Antique Silver Shop
Answer
I'd guess that a lot of this involves issues already raised in lawsuits to eBay's embarassment and disadvantage. Sort of like when you see a sign go up at a local amusement park, "Not responsible if you let your kid step out in front of the train ride," you can BET somebody did just that then sued the owners.