Question
This link came up in a thread about changes to the bidding lists:
http://www2.ebay.com/aw/core/200611021302372.html
Introducing the Safeguarding Member IDs Project
The Safeguarding Member IDs project is a new approach to auction-style listings that offers more privacy for our members through changing how bidding information is displayed. Following intensive development and review, as well as Community input, we believe the Safeguarding Member IDs project provides the Community with enough information about the bidders involved in an auction-style listing for them to feel confident in placing a bid – without revealing actual User IDs. We're implementing this new system on listings with a high bid of $200 or greater, which is where we believe it can have the greatest positive impact. The bid information for listings where the bid is lower than $200 will display as it does today.
Here's what will change:
1. On the bid history page for each listing we'll replace member User IDs with aliases (such as Bidder 1, Bidder 2 and Bidder 3) in the order of their bids placed. For each bidder involved in a listing, we'll display the number of bids in unique categories that they've placed, a range that their feedback score falls within (i.e. 10-49, for instance), their percentage of positive feedback, their length of time as an eBay member, and the number of bids they've placed on the item. At the end of a listing, the winning bidder's User ID will be displayed on the item page. Please note: Sellers will still be able to access bidder information on their listings through the Bid History page and the My eBay selling table.
2. In My eBay, members will no longer have access to the high-bidder column from bid and watch tables.
3. On the item page, you'll only be able to see the high-bidder ID if you are the signed-in seller of the item or the signed-in high bidder.
4. Through the Advanced Search by Bidder link, we'll only show completed listings within the last 30 days.
Future enhancements are being designed that will provide even more transaction data about the bidders and seller involved in a transaction. We'll continue to update the community on these changes as these plans become finalized.
A CONVENIENT TRUTH: Shilling makes money for Ebay, fake second chance offers do not.
Security improvements are important, but as described, these changes will make it dead simple for unscrupulous sellers to simply shill their goods, against the established rules and ethics on the site. This has not been implemented yet**, but by the above description there is no way of knowing whether the other bidder in the auctions you are bidding on, Bidder 2 (10-49), is Bidder 3 (10-49), in another high value auction that the same seller is offering. Is it a shill, another collector, or two entirely unrelated people? If you bid what you are prepared to pay, does it matter? - or will you be less inclined to bid the full amount because you do not wish to be shilled?
Enhancing the ability to shill appears to be a convenient side effect of protecting consumers from bogus second chance offers, that have resulted in serious losses to some Ebay consumers (and does need serious attention). Surely though, there were ways though of doing this without removing the ability to identify unique bidders, and bidding patterns, whilst removing the ability of someone not involved in a transaction from contacting them through Ebay's system.
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**My mistake, it has partially been implemented in Ebay motors. At the time of writing, this bid history shows the new format, without even the feedback range that was promised above, but the auction itself does still show the bidders name. Clearly there were no shillers involved in this particular auction, I am just using it to illustrate the new format.
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All comments, applause and criticisms relating to this policy are welcome. I appreciate that I may be looking at this too blinkered, and I am interested in other views.
Kind Regards, Kevin
Answer
I think this is something recommended by the PeSA BOD, but don't quote me because I could be wrong.
When I'm selling something that I think the bidder doesn't want the world to know about, I make it a private auction. I don't see much difference here.
In August, I sold something for $325. The guy asked me not to give him feedback because the item was a present for his wife and he doesn't want her to see the feedback. This was strange to me because she could easily see his bidding history if she knew how to look. Then again, if someone is purchasing an expensive present for their spouse, lover, or whomever, the trail could not be led back to the bidder.
But, I see what you mean about shill bidding; it won't be easy to recognize the bidder/seller by user ID. However, I think that eBay has View the Bidding Details to show how many items Bidder 1, 2, 3, etc., has bid on, what the percentage of bids are for that particular seller and also how many bid retractions that bidder has made.
Just my 3¢.
Answer
From the bidding page that I quoted above: If I follow the "Bidding Details" > View link, I get a small summary graphic which gives the following details:
Bidder 1
Feedback: 10 to 49 • 100% Positive
Registered on eBay: Between 2 and 3 years
Bids on this item: 3
30-Day Summary
Total bids: 24
Items bid on: 8
Bid activity (%) with this seller: 12%
Bids to unique sellers: 4
Bids in unique categories: 7
Bid retractions: 0
At the bottom of this box is another link which sends you to this pagewhich does outline bidding activity over the last 30 days.
Answer
Discussion of this subject at The Ross Board:
http://www.therossshow.com/showthread.php?t=6139
Auctionbytes article:
http://auctionbytes.com/cab/abn/y06/...s01/index_html
With thanks to Toy Ranch.
Cheers, Kevin
Answer
No matter how you slice it, it will be more difficult to spot shills...
Being how ebay relies on US to report shills/shillers (despite their "state-of-the-art shill detecting software"), it's not a good thing. The transparency of auctions will be clouded.
A buyer who even thinks that they've been shilled may never, ever bid on an online auction again.
Answer
A buyer who even thinks that they've been shilled may never, ever bid on an online auction again.
Also when they get taken by false second chnce offers they mey never purchase again,
There is also the loss of sales to to bottom feeding. Some one offering the same item for less. Still goes on also.
Answer
Some dumb questions:
Does the bidder's ID need to be clickable?
Does there need to be a "contact the user" link on the feedback page?
Would the Ebay id being visible but not (directly) contactable be sufficient to stop most of the fake Second Chance Offers, and bottom feeding activity?
Kevin
Answer
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
Some dumb questions:
Does the bidder's ID need to be clickable?
Does there need to be a "contact the user" link on the feedback page?
Would the Ebay id being visible but not (directly) contactable be sufficient to stop most of the fake Second Chance Offers, and bottom feeding activity?
How *do* the fake Second Chance offers end up in the underbidders mailboxes, anyway? I thought the email addresses of users were hidden from the rest of the world a long time ago.
Aside from Rob Chesnut and the PeSA people, is there anybody that thinks this is a good change?
Answer
Simple solution - snipe.
Answer
Does this make you comfortable as a bidder?
Not only Ebay Motors, but tonight it has hit Ebay auctions in Australian dollars - not just for items over $250, but also the $7.00 postcards in my seller list at the time of writing. Most of those auctions with bids, have a high bidder called "bidder1", some with different coloured stars. When I logged in anew, my own selling list does show the Bidder ID's - although it stated that I was already logged in at the top of the page when I got the Bidder1 result. I have not heard of anyone getting scam second chance offers on $7.00 postcards, but I guess that Ebay would try to keep it under wraps if it were happening.
The information box at the top of that bidding history page (first link) says:
As the internet evolves, eBay continues to strike a balance between preserving transparency and protecting our Community of members. eBay has decided to change how bid history information is displayed so bad guys cannot target bidders with fake offers using this information. In certain cases, some bidders will no longer be able to view Bidder User IDs on the Bid History page. Your User ID will be shown only to you and the seller of the item you're bidding on. Other members will see an anonymous name, such as Bidder 1, applied consistently to the Bid History page.
The use of the term "bad guys" almost makes one wonder whether Meg enlisted George W Bush to write the security announcements.
Kevin (who now thinks his selling list looks like it is being shilled)