Question
My first dispute, so far only through Ebay, but the payment was made through PayPal. Item was sent early January to an address in a city about 4 hours away, three days later I received positive feedback from the buyer to the effect of "Item Received, Very Happy With It". 3 days is consistant with mail to that city. I have responded to the item dispute, and discovered that I can not actually defend myself to Ebay, only (at this stage) reply to the buyer. The Ebay form asks for a tracking number if applicable - I do not have access to tracking, and did not include insurance in the 60 cents postage.
I have not heard back from her, and she may drop the dispute immediately for all I know.
The question arises, in any case, whether a positive feedback 2 months ago by the buyer indicating that the item was received and satisfactory, is sufficient to counter a claim against non-delivery, or whether it is entirely moot when there is no tracking number or delivery confirmation?
Just curious at this stage, Kevin
Answer
nope
only tracking numbers I think
but I definitely think feedback never works into the equasion
I got one guy who is saying he was short shipped
he wasn't
not sure how PP is going to deal with this one, it was shipped, tracking says delivered,he admits it was delivered, he just says we counted wrong.... my word against his.
Answer
The joys of being foreign scum!~
It would make for an easy rort, buy from someone who has no access to tracking, leave feedback as soon as the item arrives and prompt the seller to leave reciprocal feedback if they do not do so immediately (I leave it as soon as I, ahem, believe that the item has arrived). Let the feedbacks clear from the front page of feedbacks, leave it for a couple of months and claim that the item was never received. You can't be negged and a repsonse just won't be seen by anyone dealing with either party, and you get goods for free.
I do NOT think that this is what the buyer is doing in this case - it is a low value item, and just not worth wasting such a great opportunity on. Ebay and PayPal continue to create opportunities for scam artists though. PayPal protection is about anything BUT legitimate protection for consumers (and sellers are consumers of PayPal's services as well).
Kevin (in a particularly grumpy mood today - this is only one of the reasons)
Answer
well feedback worked for me when a seller posted a NPB against me and I responded to ebay that not only had I paid received the item but pointed out the seller had posted feedback to the extent of "fast pay " ect .
off course this was in the eraly days when one could actully cary on a dialoge with ebay staff
Answer
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
My first dispute, so far only through Ebay, but the payment was made through PayPal. Item was sent early January to an address in a city about 4 hours away, three days later I received positive feedback...
Kevin,
For a start you should immediately change your eBay TOS to exclude PayPal from your fellow convicts, sorry Australians. (Sorry - couldn't resist.) Your banking system is world class and since bank-to-bank transfers are the defacto standard payment method for most Australian domestic eBay sales, I'd change my TOS to reflect that (plus you'll save heaps in fees and grief down the line). Remember you don't get paid any faster with PayPal and you are taking more risks in accepting it compared to a minimal risk with domestic bank-to-bank transfers.
You might want to thank your buyer for their postive feedback, but question them as to why you have received a payment dispute from them via PayPal and that you would like to know the reason for it. Why didn't they simply contact you? Ask the buyer if you should notify eBay and PayPal that their account was hacked or hijacked, or would it be better to contact the Police so a thorough investigation can be made... Tell them you are more than happy to cooperate with any law enforcement investigation. You are also happy to contact their credit card company and bank and alert them to the problem too. Anything to assist them. (This as you can guess is all designed to scare the scammer sh*tless, as typically scammers don't like the glare of publicity.)
As a matter of policy PayPal will completely ignore all eBay feedback, so any glowing feedback from your PayPal scammer is meaningless to PayPal. However eBay feedback "can and will be used as evidence" in any inquiry you might ask your State Police to open with a view to a proscution against your buyer for "obtaining goods by deception".
As you know after reading PayPal's consise easy to read TOS (yes, I'm being sarcastic), Australian sellers enjoy zero Seller Protection for their worldwide sales. Fortunately, you do have more rights under Australian laws than US sellers, plus access to a financial ombudsman. Good luck!
Answer
G'day Agitprop,
I don't include PayPal on my AU Dollar auctions at all. I don't include it in my EOA's to any Australian buyers, but a handfull do pay immediately that my US dollar auctions finish. I doubt that changing my terms would stop most of those, and I guess it is just a risk I take.
Whilst I accept bank transfer on request, I do not bank on-line because I foolishly believe that the internet was not designed for banking purposes, and I will not lodge my bank details in Ebay's system as it only takes a bid (with no intention of paying) for someone to get the information. I am a dinosour, as has been pointed in various ways. I agree that our banking system is world class, and our bank's profits are better than world class (which does actually add security to savings). Our banks do pay out for hijacked on-line accounts, which suggests to me that they also see their systems as being vulnerable and at fault.
When PayPal launched the Australian subsidiary, I believe that our TOS is not only easier to read, but I think that our bank accounts are protected from charge back, unlike the American system (if I understand both correctly).
I only joined PayPal late December due to the closure of BidPay and the changes to Ebay's payment policy. I refused to on principle prior to that, and still resent feeling "forced" to do so. That said, I think that using PayPal has boosted my foreign sales (particularly to the USA) and helped some prices substantially - I still don't like or trust PayPal on principle, but I do concede those points.
I guess that any losses I incur through being "protected" by PayPal, are more than offset by the additional income.
========
I contacted the buyer immediately pointing out that feedback had been left, and I believed that she was satisfied with the transaction. She said she would check at home that night, and apologised if she had made a mistake. I suspect that she had made a mistake, as I have not heard another word - but I still have an open dispute on my account.
If she does not take this any further, and if she does not CLOSE the dispute, does this affect me in the future if someone else makes a dispute?
Kind Regards, Kevin
Answer
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
.
If she does not take this any further, and if she does not CLOSE the dispute, does this affect me in the future if someone else makes a dispute?
Kind Regards, Kevin
Kevin, if she doesn't close the dispute within the allowed time frame, ebay will close it as being resolved. At least that's what happened to me from the other end. I filed an NPB, buyer Never responded to ebay, but I didn't have access to the computer when the 7 day limit was up. Ebay closed the dispute as everything being okey dokey and I couldn't recoup my fees-no strike against the buyer-that pissed me more than the loss of fees, as the buyer had done this before.
Answer
Kevin-
Sorry this happened.
If I were you, I'd give the buyer at the MAXIMUM a week to get back to you.
If you haven't heard back from her/him by then, email once again (as nicely as possible) and inquire as to the status. If/when they contact you to let you know (hopefully) that it was simply an error, thank them and ask them to cancel/finalize their complaint via PayPal. (You could also toss in again about what a great buyer they were and how appreciative you were of being able to assist them in their purchase, perhaps reinforcing in their minds what a nice guy you are, a great seller with fabulous communication, and they might be more inclined to assist YOU accordingly.)
I'm sure that's a step that may slip a buyer's mind.
Best wishes.
Answer
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
G'day Agitprop,
I don't include PayPal on my AU Dollar auctions at all...
G'day Kevin,
First thing I'd recommend is you change your PayPal email address to something different than your eBay one. This prevents buyers sending you unsolicited PayPal payments. In future you should deny all PayPal payments from Australians, and state in your auctions "PayPal for international bidders only. No PayPal from Australian bidders." or something to that effect. Give your domestic bank details to Aussie bidders in your end of auction notice. By accepting you are taking on unneccessary risks as you have discovered with this first PayPal charge back.
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
Whilst I accept bank transfer on request, I do not bank on-line because I foolishly believe that the internet was not designed for banking purposes...
Aussie banks are reasonably safe but if I recall they still don't use rotating passwords and other more sophisticated anti-phishing measures. Also third-parties can do direct drafts from your account, but need an authorised signature or the funds will be reversed. As a safety measure you should always sets up a specific sub-account for online payments and transfer the balance to your main account when the balance grows too large. Most banks do offer full reimbursement for fraudulent transfers (unless you really did want to send $1000 to Nigeria?).
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
I contacted the buyer immediately pointing out that feedback had been left, and I believed that she was satisfied with the transaction. She said she would check at home that night, and apologised if she had made a mistake. I suspect that she had made a mistake, as I have not heard another word - but I still have an open dispute on my account.
As to your 'mistaken' buyer, you might want to contact your buyer's local Post Office to have them confirm in writing that she received the item or it was delivered to her address. If she continues to insist that it wasn't, ask her to fill out a statutory declaration to that effect. (It has to be signed and usually witnessed.) It also can be used to convict someone of perjury (as Martha Steward discovered).
I'd wait a few days for them to cancel their PayPal complaint. If not, then feed them some platitudes about them being a valued customer etc., as per what Kathleen suggested previously but point out that your insurance company requires you to lay a complaint against them with the State and Federal Police for "obtaining goods by deception" and/or "credit card fraud". It's a matter of policy and it's nothing personal. You really don't want to have to do this as it's an awful lot of paperwork, but you need to to collect on your insurance. Also add that if her PayPal account has been compromised, then the Police will help track down the criminals responsible and help bring them to justice.
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
If she does not take this any further, and if she does not CLOSE the dispute, does this affect me in the future if someone else makes a dispute?
Yes it may which is why it's so important to clear your good name. If she is guilty of "Fraud by PayPal" then you need to press charges against her. Her conviction will serve as a warning to others.
Finally I'd suggest you file a report on your case with the Australian Competition and Consumer Commission who are currently investigating PayPal Australia:
http://www.accc.gov.au/content/index...romItemId/3634
Hope this helps!
Answer
Thank you for the time and detailed reply, Agitprop.
I will point out that no claim has been made against PayPal at this stage, and so far she has only opened an Item Not Received Dispute with Ebay and gone no further.
I won't comment further here, until something happens further with the matter.
Kind Regards, Kevin