Question
Okay, I know I'm probably lucky that this is the first time I'm encountering this, but I had PayPal reverse a charge last week. AFTER I mailed out the item, of course. I don't even know what's going on and this is what bothers me. I thought sellers were supposed to have SOME sort of protection. I don't feel the least bit protected here. They reversed the payment because of SUSPECTED unauthorized activity of an account. They don't seem to care in the least, all I get is this form letter. Lucky for me it's a small amount, but it's they way they handle it that really bugs me. This is the email I got (personal info blanked out):
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
Dear ----- (me) -------,
We were recently notified that one of your buyers used an account that has been associated with possible unauthorized use. The following PayPal transaction has been reversed, and the funds have been debited from your account:
Transaction ID: -------------
Transaction Date: Dec. 12, 2005
Transaction Amount: -----------
Buyer's Email: -------------
Buyer's Name: -------------
To help in our investigation, please reply with the following information within seven calendar days:
1. The purchased item and the value of the item.
2. The name and address given to you by the buyer.
3. Whether or not the item has been shipped. (If you have not yet sent the item, do not ship it.) 4. If you have already shipped the item, please provide the name of the shipping provider, date of shipment, and tracking number, so that PayPal can verify the shipment and delivery.(For transactions of $250.00 USD or more, you must provide a proof-of-receipt in the form of a signature from the buyer.) 5. Details of any other payments you sent or received that were related to the above transaction.
6. Your day and evening phone numbers.
We would like to obtain as much information as possible about the above transaction, including any email correspondence between you and the buyer, in order to expedite this investigation. Solving potentially fraudulent cases helps us continue to offer PayPal as a secure and cost-effective payment service. Thank you for your cooperation and assistance.
Thank you for using PayPal!
The PayPal Team
PayPal Email ID ----------
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Blah, blah, blah... There could be at least some sort of "regret" on their part that they "had" to reverse the charge. The buyer was in contact with me before she paid saying that it would take a couple of days for me to get the PayPal payment because she had to add a bank account to her PayPal account, then when this happened she contacted me (before I even contacted her) saying that they took the funds out of an old bank account (with no money in it) instead of the new account. I want to believe her, but how could I have gotten a confirmation from PayPal that the payment went through if there was no money in the account? PayPal doesn't send out a confirmation of payment before it comes out of a person's bank account do they?
Has anyone else had something like this happen?
Debra
Answer
Nope.
I imagine it occurs though with someone stealing access to a PayPal account and whining to get the seller to send a "gift" to an unauthorized non-confirmed address which is someplace the thief can obtain the item when mailed. Time and again this is WHY sellers should not send items to non-confirmed addresses as "gifts" because this is how they defraud sellers.
I think I'd give PayPal the information (don't click any links in the email), advise PayPal the item has been mailed already, and then I'd up their ante in the reply letter. Presuming you mailed to the buyer's confirmed address, I'd advise PayPal that this transaction from their input now looks like a fraudulent action by the buyer to deprive you of payment and steal the item, and that you are filing a police report and criminal complaint locally and will forward the same to their State's Attorney General's office and their local police. Then I'd do just that. I'd also tell PayPal that you expect their cooperation with the police in their investigation of the matter and thank them for bringing it to your attention (lol). Let PayPal then have to deal with police involvement.
My two cents.
Answer
I can see what you mean about the unconfirmed address and I agree. But this particular buyer is PayPal verified, has a confirmed address, and didn't ask me to send to a different address or anything.
Just to make it more interesting, I just received a "Notification of pending eCheck" from this buyer from PayPal.
I'm inclined to believe the buyer at this point, or not completely disbelieve her when she says the payment was taken out of the wrong account. She's been in touch with me the whole time and has pre-empted my emails actually.
Once the eCheck goes through, it's pretty much a done deal, right? Can they still reverse that saying it's unauthorized use of the account?? If they can, why would they even let her make the payment? I still don't get this whole thing, really. PayPal hasn't sent me ANYTHING other then the above email.
Normally I'm a total pessimist when it comes to annoying buyer problems. Actually what it is, is that I'm also a pessimist when it comes to PayPal... LOL... so when it's a combination of the two, I don't know who to peg as the bad guy...
Debra
Answer
Debra, I had the same thing happen to me a few days ago. It was a small payment, $6.99 including shipping, but I was PI**ED. I wrote back and said they should have all the info, and why did I have to do their work for them?? Which I figured didn't help, but it was only $6.99. and made me feel better.
I'd had a really nice email exchange with that particular buyer. He'd helped me ID a few things I didn't know. I emailed him with what happened, and could he possibly send an MO? He emailed back saying he was flabbergasted, he had no idea what had happened because as far as he knew, he was himself, had been his whole life, and didn't have any idea why there was anything fraudulent with his account.
I didn't email Paypal with that information because the buyer had, but a few hours later, supposedly in response to my first obnoxious email I got a personalized email from some Paypal dummy saying that they were giving me a "one-time courtesy reversal". That buyer bought something from my store the next day and paid with Paypal.
I wonder if they had some kind of system problem that day. Too bad that instead of admitting it, they had to be patronizing with the "one-time courtesy reversal" crap.
Monika
Answer
A "one-time courtesy reversal" really suggests that the next time you find yourself in a similar situation, you can whistle for your payment, and that they really had no obligation or reason to reverse the situation. If the original transaction reversal was legitimate, the situation should have been properly resolved before it was restored, not just given back as a courtesy (with the implication that you were not really entitled to it).
Innappropriately, I STILL have no confidence in PayPal.
Kevin
Answer
Originally Posted by Jube333
Has anyone else had something like this happen?
Yes, I have.
I contacted the buyer, and they were mortified. They were also sellers, and the problem was apparently due to a payment sent to them by one of their buyers (but PayPal wouldn't give me any details like that). My buyer must have apologized to me half a dozen times over the numerous emails we sent back and forth regarding the issue (of course, PayPal didn't provide any updates on the situation).
Eventually, it turned out that PayPal had made a mistake regarding my buyer's buyer (at least, that's what my buyer told me- PayPal never bothered to write back), and my money was returned.
If I were you, I wouldn't expect to receive much (read: anything) in the way of updates from PayPal about this, but then again, maybe you'll be the lucky one...
Answer
Originally Posted by DareMe
That buyer bought something from my store the next day and paid with Paypal.
I wonder if they had some kind of system problem that day. Too bad that instead of admitting it, they had to be patronizing with the "one-time courtesy reversal" crap.
Monika
This is what gets me... If there really was fraudulent activity on his account, how would he be able to make another purchase and pay using the same account? This is why I'm inclined to believe the buyer on this one, there is nothing about this that sounds fraudulent, more like a PayPal screw-up.
I guess I'm not a big enough seller to get "reversal" service... It's their "we're bigger than you" attitude that really bugs me, when I'm the victim here, and they seemingly couldn't care less.
To me, they shouldn't have right away debited back the payment on a "suspicion" of fraudulent activity until they knew what was going on.
Are they going to do this all the time? "Oooops, I think this payment might "possibly, maybe, could be" fraudulent, we better debit back the payment and THEN investigate to see if we can put it back." Sounds backwards to me!
Debra
Answer
Originally Posted by Kevin_T
Innappropriately, I STILL have no confidence in PayPal.
Kevin
Actually, I think it's quite appropriate...
Debra
Answer
Originally Posted by mrpotatoheadd
If I were you, I wouldn't expect to receive much (read: anything) in the way of updates from PayPal about this, but then again, maybe you'll be the lucky one...
I'm definitely not holding my breath...
On a side note... Is problems like this why I read in some seller's auctions, that do accept PayPal, but they state something like "No direct bank account transfers" or something like that... I've never understood why they put that in...
Debra
Answer
Debra, have you contacted your buyer? Maybe what it will take for you to get your money is for them to talk to Paypal? My buyer had no idea this was going on, so yours may not either. I haven't had PowerSeller status for a long time, so that's sure not why I got such special treatment.
Innappropriately, I STILL have no confidence in PayPal.
I'm rapidly losing mine. This plus a really bad buying experience where I got ripped off for about $50 with Paypal helping a sheister seller......Paypal, BAH.
Monika