Question
Why on earth would someone think that any photo they find on ebay belongs to the public domain? To the best of my knowledge you are not even allowed to copy someones verbage from an ebay ad -- much less outright steal their photos? Can anyone help with the location that ebay explains this?
Last weekend I paid a great deal of money to travel to a trade show. Most of the vendors are folks that I have vended with for years. The woman to my right was an exception. She seemed friendly enough.
Once setup we got busy selling. I noticed that her booth consisted of three garments on a backboard and a couple of three ring binders.
On Saturday a lady was looking at my clothing rack, came to a skirt that is brand new.....very unique -- I had just drafted the pattern earlier this summer and started selling it. She made some off handed comment about "just finding out that this skirt is called a Mermaid skirt?" I was really busy and did not comment or ask her about the comment.
I was completely shocked that I did not sell a single one of those skirts all weekend long. It has done very, very well on ebay and everywhere I've taken it. Actually had a couple of ladies fighting over one that was made from a limited fabric and they both wanted the last one left in St. Loius a few weeks ago.
On Sunday morning I saw another clothing vendor that I am well acquainted with standing at the booth next door looking through her books. I walked over to say good morning to my friend. As I approached she turned to me and said how much she like a corset pictured in this woman's book. Seeing the corset made me ask the woman if she bought wholesale from many vendors. She replied no----she made all those items herself! Lie!!! What?!? I spoke up and said while that might be a nice dream that I recognized that as the stock photo of an ebay seller from Las Vegas.......this woman is from Chicago -- did she just relocate?
That prompted me to pick up her other three ring binder and the second page I looked at almost made me have a stroke! She had the picture of two of my corsets and skirts -- using my brand new desgin -- and under it she had written.......Mermaid skirt!
I was livid and demanded that she remove my photo immediately. I told her that while I sympathized with her plight she was stealing from me and lying to her potential customers. She had not done that work. Did not have a pattern to do the work. And she was dramatically undercutting my price because she had no idea what went into the garment.
As I looked through her book I realized that almost all the images were recognizable from ebay or catalogs that I receive.
She and a "friend" of hers came back and let me know they had removed my pic but that the photos where taken off ebay and were therefore in the public doman and that they had stolen nothing since I had posted the items on ebay.....that the pics belonged to whom ever wished to use them.
I've been on ebay everyday looking for my pics. If I find her using them I report her immediately. If I find her uisng those of others that I recognize I'll email them immediately.
Does ebay have anything written on this specifically?
This woman sold against me, in the booth next to me, and cost me money that weekend using my own item!!!!
Nothing would have pleased me more than to simply choke her!
Thanks for letting me rant.
Dee
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WOW!.....I seriously doubt that your pix would become available for snatching via an "eBay is public domain" reasoning...(But I'm sure someone better versed in that area will come along with the real answer soon)...
Just want to say "Congrats" for NOT choking the woman on the spot!....The NERVE!!!!...The GALL....The AUDACITY!!!!....I don't understand how people can do stuff like that...Just don't get it....
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Dee - here you go
http://pages.ebay.com/help/confidenc...ext-theft.html
I'm not totally clear - is the woman using your images to sell on eBay or stealing them just for trade shows?
If it's just trade shows, I don't think ebay can do much about it.
Can you watermark your images with your image editing program? You may need to start doing that.
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Glyphia,
Next time you come across this kind of infringement you shouldn't go ballistic on them (well not straight away). First ask them for their business card so you know how to track their activities in future. Then politely ask them to pay your non-exclusive licensing fee of $500 for using your photos and intellectual property rights, or cease and desist from infringing your IP rights.
Same goes on eBay - ask infringers to pay your fee, then when they refuse turn them in to eBay's VERO department.
Good luck!
Originally Posted by Glyphia
Why on earth would someone think that any photo they find on ebay belongs to the public domain?
...That prompted me to pick up her other three ring binder and the second page I looked at almost made me have a stroke! She had the picture of two of my corsets and skirts -- using my brand new desgin -- and under it she had written.......Mermaid skirt!
I was livid and demanded that she remove my photo immediately. I told her that while I sympathized with her plight she was stealing from me and lying to her potential customers. She had not done that work. Did not have a pattern to do the work. And she was dramatically undercutting my price because she had no idea what went into the garment.
As I looked through her book I realized that almost all the images were recognizable from ebay or catalogs that I receive.
Thanks for letting me rant.
Dee
Answer
Do you use your own image hosting? If you do, and you wouldn't have to change too many of your own listings, you could change the pictures.
Know what I mean? Say you have an image that you are hosting on pair.com, and the image url is www..pair/glyphia/corset001.jpg. Just upload another image with that same file name only use a picture that would be more appropriate to the thieving seller... like a pig in a ballerina outfit, or maybe the words "this seller is a thief!!!".
You'd just have to make sure to change the picture urls in your own listings.
Oh, I hope you can do this, it would be such fun! I know that other folks on this board have done it in the past, this is where I got the idea!
Editted to Add:
Oh, wait a minute. This only works for jerks who are using your pictures in their auctions. I'm sorry.
Cheese and Rice, what does she tell the customers when they get garments that are nothing like the gorgeous pictures?
You know what's one of the worst parts? This is just the sort of person who sleeps like a baby at night. No conscious, no guilt.
I'm sorry for the stress you have to be feeling about this. I'd be blowing gaskets like wild!
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Greetings everyone:
I'm watching ebay like a hawk hoping to catch her and vero her....I'd likely burn up my keys typing so fast! So far I only caught her in person using them in a book.
Boo_boo my blood pressure is up so high she should get the bill. Had to add another med to the list. I do love the idea of the licensing fee. I did in fact get her card and tell her to cease and desist. I'm having a friend send her an official looking note telling her so in print. Rice and cheese exactly and I told her that too. When I commented that I absolutely knew she did not have a copy of my pattern as none exist she says well it is just like a circle which made me practially spit up and roll on the ground laughing. It looks and is cut nothing like a circle -- wath a dumb beatch! It told her that her customers were going to be horribly upset upon receiving their garments if that was her interpretation of my skirt. I also told her that was one of the reasons that I was so very upset. They'll buy using my pic and get her version and then when they see the real deal they won't buy based on her screwed up version. She is simply put ruining my good name.
nancam I usually watermark and trademark all my pics too. My husband is always bugging me about the amount of time I spend prepping my pics and this was about the only auction I have ever posted where the pic did not have a rather large trademark and a watermark-- I put it up once without the mark and then relisted when it sold -- forgetting that the pic needed work. I went through all her books looking for more of my photos and that was the only one she had -- the only one with out the great big trademark sitting clearly on it.
Blowing gaskets -- well when I left her booth it was to get a pair of scissors! I was going back to cut my photo out. That is when she came and told me that she had removed it. Lucky for her as I didn't learn to cut on the lines when I am upset.
I'm sure she was greatly surprised thinking she had crossed her t's and dotted her i's ...... a couple of years ago I switched my ebay name because I had several comments at shows saying that they would wait and buy on ebay because they could get it from me there a little cheaper. It gauled me to think that was the case so I stopped vending under my real business/website name; hence, I was not vending under the name on ebay that she stole the photo from.
Surprise, surpirse! agitprop you are correct she probably sleeps like a baby. I wrote her a note and told her that we are all simply a measure of our integrity and that she has none if she is willing to steal from her sister vendor and lie to her customer.
This whole thing just makes me nuts.
Dee
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I would like to see them use eBay's logo and claim it was in the public domain. Ha!
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You can cause this lady some grief if you trademark the items you make and she then copies them and sells fakes. Trademarks can be applied for both at at State and Federal level depending upon whether you want national coverage. To set one up you are best to talk with an Attorney specializing in Intellectual Property Rights (IP).
This would not be the first time I've heard of someone having to surrender their entire proceeds for the sales of knockoffs or of infringing items. I recall there was a lawsuit by the 3 Stooges heirs against a guy printing T-shirts. He lost every dime that he made on them, not just the profit and cannot infringe any more.
I recall street vendors selling Gucci knock-off bags and having the Feds descend upon them taking all the inventory. Seems Gucci didn't like people copying them and getting a free ride on their deliberately copied items illicitly made in China and illicitly imported.
The Copyright Laws have changed several times over the years partially due to treaties. As I understand it, you automatically have a copyright on things like photos which you created, or webpages that are uniquely laid out, letters, etc. You have the ability to sue people who violate your Copyright and the penalties can be pretty severe. You might also instigate a criminal investigation by the FBI into their violation of the criminal statutes of the Copyright Law, although I would expect them to be too busy for something small. An attorney might have more success starting such efforts as his involvement indicates you are serious. Attornies are costly and hiring one without explicit costs, goals, limits, and deadlines in prior written form can eat your funds while they do next to nothing.
VeRO is a good choice if she copies your photos again but only on eBay. I suggest micromarking them or watermarking them to prevent her stealing them. Be sure the marks overlap the item in a non-obtrusive way but are not easily removed. If you go into a photo and imbed a tiny copyright notice that isn't readily visible but can be found blowing the item up, it makes any defense the other person has pretty lame. That would have to happen after the photo is reduced in size for online use as the loss would affect text significantly. The free IrFanView program appears to have a mass edit option where it will apply a change to all photos and reduce their size too. I've not used that feature but you might want to explore it.
One problem with demanding people stop using your items... There is always a remote possibility that they started using the idea first, that they own a trademark, and you might be infringing. That is part of the discovery process. And the demand when received by someone who knows theirs was first, may start a lawsuit from them. So, you really want any demand letters handled by an attorney because they will help you make sure your have a reasonably good chance of prevailing while asserting your ownership claims.
Good thing you didn't use those scissors. While you claimed to the police you owned the photo rights, the local police probably would have still arrested you for vandalizing her book. And the charge probably would have stuck. Ouch. It would be so much better creating legal trouble for her instead of a snip here and there.
Oh, and one last thing. Nothing on eBay is automatically public domain. That is BS.
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Did you report her to the trade show promoters? I would think a reliable promoter would not let her back in any of their shows again. Hopefully she won't be in any other shows you do.
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Sure I reported her. I don't think that he did or said a thing to her. She is from Chicago and he is from Chicago so they are probably cronies.
My dilemma is whether to sign up for any of those shows again. Even with her selling next to me undercutting me I still make good money there.
I think the show owner is just so full of sh!t. He is so fussy with the vendors -- what and how you can sell and display. Wants to micro manage everything. He really runs a poor show but he has the lock on that area right now.
Thanks for the support. I did really need to rant.
Dstuber....I am sure that she did not "beat me to" the design and most feel fairly confident that she wouldn't be able to make this item if I helped her a bit -- I am fairly astute when it comes to patterns, who makes what, who has which things trademarked and licensed.....
I wish that I had the money to hire the attorney to take her on. Only thing is I don't think she really makes much. I'd probably not see a return on the money so I'd be doing it for the aggrevation factor and perhaps firing a warning shot for the future.
Have a great fall weekend everyone.
Dee