Question
Did you know that when eBay reverses a NPB strike, they also reverse the FVF credit they gave the seller as well?
One of the ways for a bidder to get a NPB strike removed is to show proof that the seller left them positive feedback. This, however, doesn't take into account a credit card reversal or bounced check occurring AFTER the positive feedback was left.
The rules for appealing unpaid item strikes and suspensions:http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/appeal-upi.html
How to appeal a strike or suspension
An Unpaid Item strike can be removed if eBay is provided with proof of payment, proof that the seller excused you from your obligation, or if the seller removes the strike themselves. Below are the different types of proof you can provide and modes in which you can submit your appeal.
Please note that just providing an explanation of a warning, without the appropriate proof, will only delay the appeal process.
Proof of payment types
eBay accepts any of the following as proof of payment:
Copy of a check or money order Send photocopies of the front and back of your check or money order as proof of payment. Include the item number and your User ID on the copies.
You can send us this information by fax or postal mail.
Email communication between you and the seller Send eBay copies of email that you sent to the seller. You can also send email communication between the seller and yourself showing the item was paid for. Please remember to include the email headers from the emails.
You can send us this information by email, fax or postal mail.
Copy of payment confirmation from PayPal or other payment service Send or email a copy of your payment confirmation email from PayPal or a confirmation email from another payment service. Please remember to include the email headers from the emails.
You can send us this information by email, fax or postal mail.
Proof that the seller left you positive feedback for the transaction
If the seller left you positive feedback, including the item number so that we can verify the feedback.
Proof that the seller excused you from the transaction Please send a copy of the email showing that the seller excused you from the transaction. Please remember to include the email headers from the emails.
But it gets worse! eBay will give a newbie or first time NBD a pass if they complain and will reverse the NBD strike without requiring ANY of the proof mentioned above. Once the NBD strike is reversed, the seller's FVF credit is also removed without notifying the seller in the strike reversal correspondence.
This is an email from someone on Bill Cobb's staff in response to an inquiry about the practice of forgiving the first NDB offense:
"My name is xxxx, and I am happy to respond to your email on Bill's behalf. He has asked me to do so to ensure a prompt reply to your concerns.
I understand that you are concerned about the Non-Paying Bidder process,and in particular the fact that a first offense is often forgiven without the strike being held against the buyer.
Your concern is very legitimate, and it is one that I share. As an avid eBay buyer and seller, I am concerned with the treatment of both segments of our community. I would like to reassure you that your concerns have been passed along to the appropriate team.
The NPB process is still quite new to eBay, and we are dedicated to ensuring that the system fits well into our community. As a result, we are open to suggestions to improve the system from those people who are most
affected by it.
I hope that my response has addressed your concern. I would like to assure you that Bill is reviewing the suggestions that our members have made, including yours, and that your concerns are important to us.
I would also like to thank you for taking the time to write to us and express your concerns. I appreciate the time that you have take out of your day, and I hope that your effort has been made worthwhile.
Thank you for your involvement in our community.
The email and the discussion about this subject can be found here: http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.js...114 095483123
A thread about the FVF credit being removed once the NPB strike is reversed:
http://forums.ebay.com/db2/thread.js...11461 9757560
It's one thing for eBay to decide to forgive a first time NPB and remove the strike but it's something else entirely for them to take away the seller's FVF credit when they didn't get paid.
If you recently filed a UID which resulted in a NPB strike and that strike was subsequently reversed, check your invoices to see if the amount of the FVF credit was recharged to your account.
Blanche
Answer
Yup.
It's another reason I don't leave fb upon payment. I usually wait for couple months to leave the feedback.
Also, if the deadbeat appeals and even if he/she admits he didn't pay, if he wins the appeal they'll remove the credit.
Answer
The practice of reversing the FVF in cases where the seller is clearly left holding the bag is another reason eBay management has earned my contempt.
The NPB is "new" to them? More bull droppings, and not very choice ones at that. lol.
Instead of plying you with words, excuses and boilerplate, management should be fixing the problem.
I am convinced they all are going to bail when the ship starts to leak, and live off the stock options they cashed in.
The current management is clearly not concerned about eBay's sellers. They just say they are.
You know, their continued incompetance has made me feel like a scold. If only there was something I could be positive about, something THEY did to make the site better.....I would be happy to give them a pat on the back.
Larry
Answer
I just noticed the strike I gave to one of my recent deadbeats was reversed today (I know because I filed the FVFC last night). Ebay has not just reversed it for one on hers, but 4 reversals for 4 different sellers for one deadbeat within couple of weeks. I know because I have been in contact with the other sellers who filed and they had already told me that ebay reversed it on theirs and charged them the FVF again. Had these 4 strikes remained the deadbeat would be NARU right now right??
Answer
What will happen if buyer pays via Paypal, but seller does not take Paypal?
That scenario, along with others I can think of, leaves sellers hung out for the plucking if this policy is followed through on. Then eBay gets to squeeze them after the pluck.
Answer
After reading about this situation, it appears to me that the safest option for a seller to handle a NPB and not jeopardize their FVF credit is to file a UID and choose "We've agreed not to complete the transaction", as long as the NPB agrees to do the same. It's the only option for the seller to guarantee retaining the FVF credit. Unfortunately, it also keeps the non-paying bidder from getting a NPB strike on their record.
Is this what eBay wants? I'm beginning to think so.
http://pages.ebay.com/help/tp/unpaid-item-process.html
4) Closing the dispute
The seller can close the dispute after the buyer has responded at least once, or if the buyer does not respond within 8 days. A seller can find all Unpaid Item disputes they have filed in their Dispute Console. The seller has several options to close the dispute:
We've completed the transaction and we're both satisfied. With this option, the seller does not receive a Final Value Fee credit and the buyer does not receive an Unpaid Item strike.
We've agreed not to complete the transaction. With this option, the buyer does not receive an Unpaid Item strike, the seller receives a Final Value Fee credit, and the item is eligible for a relist credit.
I no longer wish to communicate with or wait for the buyer. With this option, the buyer receives an Unpaid Item strike, the seller receives a Final Value Fee credit, and the item is eligible for a relist credit.
A dispute can only be open for 60 days after the transaction date (i.e. the date when the buyer commits to buying the item and the seller commits to selling it). If the seller has not closed the dispute within 60 days, it will be automatically closed. When this automatic closure takes place the seller does not receive a Final Value Fee credit and the buyer does not receive an Unpaid Item strike.
If I were still selling on eBay I would be causing such a stink on the boards about the NPB free pass and the FVF credit reversal that the smell would never leave. Thank God I no longer sell there.
Blanche
Answer
Nope, all the bidder has to do is choose that they want to complete the transaction and the seller loses the fvfc as well. No guarantee to credit.
Answer
The NPB process is still quite new to eBay,
"Quite new" as compared to WHAT.....your job title as Bill Cobb's assistant???
So what *I* am reading is that eBay is admitting that the 3 strikes rule now basically excludes any "foul balls" the blind umpires in San Jose decide to call!???!
The must certainly smoke better stuff out there than the rest of get our hands on!
Answer
Ken, eBay no longer mentions a specific number of NPB strikes before one is suspended.
The old NPB Policy page is no longer available on eBay itself. If you go to the A-Z index on the eBay Help page and click on the Non-Paying Bidder Policy listed under "N", you're redirected to the new Unpaid Item Process page. http://pages.ebay.com/help/index/N.html
I found the old page via a Google search. Here's the old NPB policy which states the 2 strikes and you're out rule:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/basics/g-npb.html Bolding mine
Non-Paying Bidder Policy
Non-paying bidding undermines trust within our trading community. Bidders who win auctions but fail to complete the transaction may face certain consequences.
When a bidder fails to follow through with the transaction, sellers usually request a credit for their final value fee. eBay asks these sellers about the reason for their request and gives them a credit if they have encountered a non-paying bidder.
At the same time, we automatically send an email warning to the user who has been accused of non-paying bidding. The user receives two warnings before suspension. If the non-paying bidding continues a third time, eBay suspends the user from our system indefinitely.
eBay understands that users sometimes have legitimate reasons for not being able to follow through in a transaction. They include hospitalization, family emergencies, acts of nature, and computer-related problems. Our warning messages include directions for appealing complaints that we've received from sellers.
This is the new Unpaid Item Policy which doesn't mention a specific number of NPB strikes:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/unpaid-item.html Bolding Mine
Buyers automatically enter into a legally binding contract to purchase the item from the seller if they win the auction-style listing or use the Buy It Now feature. eBay's Unpaid Item policy requires buyers to pay for the items that they commit to purchase. eBay will take action against buyers who do not pay for items they have won.
Sellers can file an Unpaid Item dispute with eBay for each of their items that are purchased but not paid for. eBay will issue a strike on the account of the buyer who does not honor their obligation to pay. If a buyer gets too many strikes in too short a time period, their account will be suspended indefinitely.
Sellers with Unpaid Items are eligible for Final Value Fee credits. Also, if the item is relisted and sells the second time, eBay will refund the Insertion Fee for the relisting. Learn more about how the free relist policy works.
Note: Sellers that falsely report Unpaid Items may have all credits for the time period in question reversed, lose the right to use the Final Value Fee Credit system for a period of time and/or be subject to suspension.
eBay provides an online Unpaid Item process through which the buyer and seller can communicate with each other to resolve Unpaid Item disputes. The seller's eligibility for a Final Value Fee credit depends on the outcome of this process.
About Unpaid Item strikes and suspensions
Unpaid Item strikes are issued and tracked by eBay.
Unpaid Item strikes are separate from feedback, and do not affect a user's feedback score or member profile.
If a buyer is issued an Unpaid Item strike it will automatically be assigned to their account when the seller receives their Final Value Fee credit.
If a buyer does not respond in any Unpaid Item process, including mutual agreement not to complete a transaction, they will receive an Unpaid Item strike.
Buyers have the option of appealing an Unpaid Item strike if they believe it was undeserved.
Blanche
Answer
Okay, I can understand ebay reversing the NPB and reinstating the FVF "IF" the buyer ends up making payment but NO WAY they should reinstate the FVF if the seller agrees to let them off the hook under a mutual arrangement. Heck, that isn't consistent w/the fact you can file using the mutual agreement option and the seller doesn't get charged the FVF in the first place. Something doesn't sound right here.
I have a begging NPB in my inbox right now. Very polite, explained they had computer problems (and they haven't been bidding on ebay so I'm inclined to believe them) telling me they'll gladly pay & will I remove the NPB strike.
I was going to tell them I'd just reverse the NPB & we'd forget the whole thing but not if I'm going to get hit w/the FVF just for deciding to be a nice guy.
Are you SURE if I were to reverse the NPB using the mutual agreed not to continue that the FVF would be reinstated?