Question
I sent out a shipping notification telling the bidder that his item was sent and to let me knowwhen item was received so I could leave positive feedback. I guess I like to know the item arrived before leaving feedback. This was his response:
" I just re-read your e-mail and felt I should pass this along. You may not like this but... are you aware of the growing trend on eBay regarding feedback not left in the proper order? A lot of members have complained of being "held hostage" for their feedback by sellers even though they've made an immediate payment. When the seller won't leave a positive response for an instant payment buyers are starting to leave neutral feedbacks regardless of how the item is. I subscribe to the fair practice method with all eBayers and leave a positive feedback for every buyer as soon as I've been paid. It really is the proper way to do it. I've never held out to make sure I receive a positive feedback before I'll leave one in return and my rating is 100%. I plan to keep it that way and to give positive feedbacks to everyone I deal with on eBay as well. Please treat me the same."
I take it that he expects sellers to rush to their computers to leave feedback as soon as they receive a check or immediately go to eBay once they receive a Paypal payment. However does that buyer rush to their computer to leave feedback for the seller the minute they open their package?
By the way, I noticed eBay has changed the feedback page.
Answer
As a seller I have always left feedback immediately after shipping out the item...and in most cases, most sellers did the same back some years ago at eBay...THEN the trend went with leaving feedback only after the buyer has (and in many, many cases this WAS to retaliate in case a neg was left by the buyer - NOT saying YOU, just in general)...(this is probably info that you know but I'm commenting on the email) with the explanation that "the transaction is not 100% complete until the buyer leaves feedback and thereby shows their satisfaction"....Buyers don't like it...IMO once they pay, they have pretty much done their part of the transaction and IMO SHOULD be left feedback....You emailer is simply explaining why he doesn't leave feedback first....
I take it that he expects sellers to rush to their computers to leave feedback as soon as they receive a check or immediately go to eBay once they receive a Paypal payment.
IMO he's not expected a "rush to the computer upon receipt of payment" but rather buyers feedback before sellers...
As a frequent buyer, I used to be annoyed by this "new order" trend, but can't be bothered to wait or contact sellers to argue the point...When I sell, I leave feedback immdiately (eg. within 5/6 hours of postal ship) for my buyers...when I buy, I typically do a once a week feedbacking and hit all those who's purchases have arrived in that timeframe...
Answer
Hi Diane,
I did a post recently on this very topic asking sellers which way they handle feedback.
At first, most sellers said they left feedback as soon as the item had been paid for but as more and more responded, it was obvious that there was not a consensus on how to handle it. Almost as many sellers wait until they hear the package arrived safely.
The manner in which you handle feedback is part of the way you run YOUR business and that is none of HIS business. What he did was inappropriate or shall we say the WAY he did it. Why not just ask nicely that you leave it first if that's what he wants?
BTW, what do you mean about eBay changing the feedback page?
I have read this vague statement on eBay: “Always leave feedback after a transaction so that other members can benefit from your experience.” Do they make more detailed reference somewhere to the so called proper way of doing it?
Answer
Many sellers consider the transaction to not be completed until the item has arrived, has been inspected and either approved or rejected and any issues handled by both parties and accepted. It isn't feedback being held hostage, it is that these sellers determine for their business in their terms of sale that the transaction isn't complete until both parties have completed all actions necessary. The feedback is a rating of the entire transaction. Many sellers have never given a negative and don't have any. Many sellers including me are extremely detailed, pleasant, patient, and careful with every transaction and in correspondence. I've read where good sellers ignored bluntness in emails, no emails, wrong email addresses, wrong street addresses, and late payments with no negatives given. I'd expect most sellers will not ignore a neutral or negative from a bidder not abiding by their terms.
I'd expect the buyer who left a neutral saying "their feedback was held hostage" will receive a seller's escalating feedback reply, a block on all future buyer's bids, and maybe even escalation into other areas. The issue is simply this. If the bidder doesn't like the seller's terms, don't bid. It is that simple. The seller's business is theirs to run and manage and it is their right to set their terms. Buyers do not have the right to walk into Sears and demand Sears change how it operates. To deliberately mess up someone's feedback simply because the bidder doesn't like the seller's terms is improper and might even lend itself to the buyer being sued for feedback wording. I cannot imagine anyone wanting to start an escalating problem with anyone over a relatively petty issue. Some people aren't rational. To deliberately start something costly with someone over something relatively petty compared to our lives, families, homes, businesses, etc. is simply unfathomable. I've seen horrific stories on eBay forums about people who get into one-up-manship battles. Neither party wins. Both loose. Some even sound like the movie Fatal Attraction - true terrors. We should pick our battles carefully and only fight the ones that are truly important. I've even read where someone drove cross country to confront the other party in person. Now that is scary. We aren't hidden online - we are all easily traceable including phone numbers, addresses, and much more.
If some bidder's thing is to have it their way or else and ignore a sellers' terms and insist upon having feedback prior to the transaction completing, they should bid elsewhere instead of violating the seller's terms.
Many, many sellers have altered their policies related to feedback. I don't agree with any who might be simply retaliatory. Each transaction should be considered on its own merit. Sellers who have changed their policy relating to feedback mostly did so because:
1. Buyers got positive feedback and then felt they didn't need to leave any for the seller. The sellers are being left out of the process in many cases. Yes, there are two sides to the story. I've read a lot of posts by disappointed sellers that felt they did everything right only to get no feedback. They ask about this all the time. Sellers found they get more feedback if they hold feedback until they get feedback - negative or positive.
2. Some buyers once they had their positive feedback started doing feedback extortion in emails, "do this unreasonable thing or they will leave a negative," etc.
3. Some buyers in increasing numbers are fraudulently claiming to have never received the item even when the shipper clearly shows it delivered. They leave a negative in reply to a seller's positive left at payment, which in some seller's cases should now be a negative since the buyer in many cases was dishonest.
4. Some buyers faced with a problem like late delivery become nasty, demanding, unreasonable, and impatient, and even if the seller is patient, polite, extremely nice, and sends them two of everything for free with free shipping, still may leave the seller a negative simply because it is a buyer's bad day. The feedback having not been left by either party gives both sides reason to be careful, polite, patient, timely, and reasonable in attempting to resolve a problem that occurs after payment.
Truly, both sides have valid issues and valid complaints. But leaving a neutral is not a solution in this case. And unfortunately, good buyers are affected in terms by the actions of the bad ones.
Answer
I leave feedback when I process items for shipment.
My opinion is that once I have shipped, anything that goes wrong after that
is probably NOT the buyer's fault.
If the item is lost in the mail, that is not their fault. I am one of the few sellers
who think that a lost package is the SELLER's responsibility. As in insurance is
for sellers, not buyers. I could not sleep at night if I told a buyer SORRY you didnt purchase insurance so you are screwed!
If the item is not as described in the buyer's eyes, then that is the seller's responsiblity too. For example, I once sold an old map that was pristine, except for some edge wear. When the buyer got it, he thought the wear was Heavy, not light... he admitted he was picky, and I gave him a refund.
For me, customer service is Job 1. I stand behind my items 100%. This is my business, and I can write losses off on taxes. A buyer can't.
Personally, I believe that all sellers who hold feedback, regardless of their reasons, do it to have the leverage of possible negative feedback. And if they want to wait, they should CLEARLY state in their TOS that they hold feedback until advised item is received and buyer is happy.
Of course, all this is my opinion, but I look poorly upon sellers who leave retalitory negative feedback. Very poorly. It shows a lack of business acumen and skills in my eyes, and costs them my bid.
I do leave negative feedback for NPBs.
The way I look at emails like that from buyers is that they are scared and wary buying on eBay, and by being professional and polite, I can encourage them to buy more... Hopefully from me! I also look at my TOS as flexible when necessary. Little things like a buyer wanting feedback first are not worth the time arguing... I would leave the feedback, thank them for the purchase and probably offer them a discount on their next purchase.
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I agree with you 100% Larruone.
I think it would be great if sellers included in their TOS that they won't be leaving feedback until the buyer does.
But they don't, and they won't, because it is a threat.
Nobody would buy from them, knowing they had so little confidence in their customer service.
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I just recently started selling on ebay, and in asking tips of some of those that have had more experience on the issue of feedback, I was told to "leave feedback as soon as you are paid", and not to play the "you first" game.
I see a lot of sense in that.
I think that somewhere down the line, the reward for _not_ holding back on feedback, will pay off in a reputation of being "fair". Whether or not I receive reciprical feedback to the feedback I left, I will know that I did the right thing, and feel good about myself as a seller.
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As a seller, I leave feedback the day I ship, when I close out paperwork. I have considered waiting until receipt, but decided I just don't want to spend the time checking up on everything to see if it arrived yet. If they are unhappy, I'm sure I'll hear from them and I'll deal at that time.
Also, on the shipping confirmation email, I tell them that I am leaving positive FB for them. I think it may relieve some anxiety on their part, and gives them a "happy". I often get a return email stating that they will leave a pos in return.
As a buyer, I leave feedback in chunks whenever I happen to be in MyEbay, or whenever I have a spare 20 minutes to spend logging in.
I do not notify sellers when their item is received unless there is a problem. Mostly because I'm lazy and don't want to hunt up the email address.
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Since I have a 72-hour no-questions-asked return policy (when I sell), I leave feedback 72 hours after I know the package was received.
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About half the time, I leave feedback as soon as payment is received. The other half of the time I leave it once the transaction is over with--usually because I have gotten busy and have not had time to log in and deal with feedback. It's not really a consicous choice to do one or the other with me.
For me, eBay is only one small part of the big picture--and my main priority is packing and shipping their goods as quickly as possible, and handling emails. Appropriate feedback ALWAYS follows, just sometimes quickly, sometimes a bit more slowly.
I have only had two people complain about the speed of my feedback (both recently). One was an item for which they paid and emailed me immediately after sending, demanding feedback in a not-so-kind way. I received the payment on a day when I was actually ready to immediately leave feedback for everyone--and that kind of surprised me, as only 5 minutes had passed between his payment and "leave feedback for me NOW" email. The other was one which I had forgotten, and I apologized profusely. The customer has since been a very nice repeat buyer!
Basically, I can see plusses and minuses to leaving feedback immediately, or after the product is received. I say, do whatever works for you. Sellers or Buyers who use feedback as ransom, threat material, etc. are just plain ol' wrong, I think.