Question
I'm tired of buyers trying everything in the book to get a refund or to ask for tech support (I sell computer equipment) or to try and have me pay for return shipping when there's nothing wrong with their equipment.
I have a simple 6 line policy now. I've seen seller that have 3 pages of 6pt. font worth of terms. Reading through most of these clearly outlines their policy.
I have just completed my policy statement and it's 1.5 pages long. I combined the best of many seller's policies that applies to my auctions.
My question is: should I include this new policy on the auction page, or provide a link so they can read it if they wanted to? (this is what all "big boys", including eBay, Yahoo, etc. do. They don't show the TOS on every web page.)
Answer
I think a link would be best. A long time ago, my searches used to occasionally take me to a seller whose TOS had a header something like, "The following terms are in affect whether you read them or not." Maybe your link could say something like that.
Peace,
Sadie
Answer
The main purpose of TOS on your auction listing is to market your item - to make buying from you attractive.
Link (or omit) anything else
Answer
Yes, the main purpose is to sell. But, when after 7yrs on eBay, I've seen everything buyers tried to get away with. Now they can't say that I never told them about the auction policy.
Here is a list of things that happened to me:
- switched motherboard in a computer and return the defective one.
- switched batteries in a backup and returned it claiming it was defective.
- returned printers without notifying me that it's being sent back.
- returned monitors for repair and refused to pay to ship it back to them.
- dropped 24" Sony monitor (110lbs.) and claimed that's the way I shipped it.
- couldn't configure a print server and claimed it was defective.
- had a "friend" who's an "expert" try to repair a color laser printer and totally screwed it up.
- took computer to a local repair center and wanted me to pay the bill because the video card popped out of the socket during shipping. Never notified me of this, just took it to have it fixed.
And there are many more incidences. Many years ago I fixed the problem of swapping defective parts for mine. I had a custom stamp made and placed a UV ink stamp on many parts. You can see this under a UV lamp.
I now tell the buyer that they are welcome to return the item if it's defective, but if I don't see the UV stamp in the places I know its supposed to be, they have switched the items or parts. I was amazed how many were never sent back after I told them about this.
Answer
Here is a list of things that happened to me:
- switched motherboard in a computer and return the defective one.
- switched batteries in a backup and returned it claiming it was defective.
- returned printers without notifying me that it's being sent back.
- returned monitors for repair and refused to pay to ship it back to them.
- dropped 24" Sony monitor (110lbs.) and claimed that's the way I shipped it.
- couldn't configure a print server and claimed it was defective.
- had a "friend" who's an "expert" try to repair a color laser printer and totally screwed it up.
- took computer to a local repair center and wanted me to pay the bill because the video card popped out of the socket during shipping. Never notified me of this, just took it to have it fixed.
And do you really think that there is any TOS language in the world that will prevent this?
IMHO, all you will accomplish is to scare away good customers who, perhaps rightly, will think that you are too much trouble to deal with.
Answer
I tend to agree with you Bill, but I have to do something to prevent the few who do this from trying to screw me.
I know that all big companies have this kind of policy to prevent the few who take advantage.
Here is the link to the one I contructed and will link to in my ads.
http://www.s92255446.onlinehome.us/eBay/ebay-policy.htm
The idea is that it's available and if someone wants to read it, they can, but if they want to ignore it, they can as well.
If anyone wants to comment on it, suggestions to add, change or delete things, I'm open for it.
Answer
ok, I am wrestling with this same quesiton, but mine is only 5 paragraghs large font and it bugs me as "too long", the sell page is a sell page not a "mumble jumble this is what we can and can't accept" crapola page....we just voted to link to it....no one reads the dmned thing anyway...
but we are also going to link to it in the EOA....with a sentence like....please ckick here and read our terms of service .....but I really like tha tline up there about if you rea dit or not it still applies but that would probably look offensive in our industry but be totally acceptable in yours.
Answer
Considering how much extra 'bloat' this adds to every listing pageload, I really think (er, hope) that eBay will eventually create a block (API / SYI field) for a seller's Item-Specific TermsOfSale & provide a link to an eBay page delineating the seller's "standard/long" terms of sale ~~ a page which includes a textual date-stamp to reflect the last revision date. Each seller would input his TOS in a seller prefs page (similar to setting up shipping discounts for your selling account). In the meantime, lemme tell y'all a story 'bout a man named Jed:
~~~~~~~~~~~
In the context of opening my eBay store, the "StoresTeam" staff provided plenty of phone support. One of my questions was specific to how much mumbo jumbo should I include in my listing template (stock/boilerplate pagecode to include branding/HTML layout/terms).
After telling me verbally that "in order to be enforceable, all relevant terms and conditions must appear in the listing -- EACH listing. The rationale here is that a disreputable seller could quite easily change his offsite 'terms' webpage, whereas the listing page is locked (to editing) once a bid has been placed. Further, in the event of a dispute, the listing page remains available to buyer/seller/staff for several months after the auction/storeTransaction closes"...
...he followed up by emailing me a link to the applicable policy page:
http://pages.ebay.com/help/policies/...nks-terms.html
QUOTE
(bold added below for emphasis)
==================================
You may provide one link to further outline the terms and conditions of your listing. This page may not include any links to Web pages outside of eBay. Remember that you must include the relevant portions of the terms and conditions on the listing page as well as on the separate Terms and Conditions page. This relevant information includes:
-- Shipping information (you may also link to a shipping calculator)
-- Forms of payment accepted
-- Terms of payment—when payment is expected
-- Handling charges
-- Any taxes that may apply
==================================
As a result, my terms/conditions boilerplate isn't unfriendly, but it is long & painstakingly clear. Although I hate the visual clutter, I've used the space creatively & effectively ~~ intentionally delineating "f'rinstances" which would SCREAM of keyword-spamming, if they were loosely placed (in the description or in the title). FWIW,I've was careful to not use any brand names.
During a subsequent phone call (after populating my store with several dozen listings which utilized my new boilerplate), I asked the staffer {it was a different staffperson} to review my listings & provide constructive feedback. I was told "Looks great! Excellent photos! You might oughta add some more color, or brighter colors to the layout... and consider that after opening a store, we still recommend listing 60% of your items in auction format to drive traffic to the store..."
So far, so good. On a different (future) day though, a different staffer might handle a keyword-spamming complaint levied against me by closing the reported listing(s). Now that store listings are searched & included in search results, I'm convinced that the spiced (spiked?) TOS keyword placements are really helping.
Answer
I agree with Bill...
The purpose should be to SELL, not to try and stop the bad apples.. Nothing in the world will stop them anyway... If you target your terms to the good buyer it will make up in increased sales for the bad ones..
Over the last 7+ years of selling I've always offered a 100% unconditional satisfaction guarantee. (contact within 24 hours after receiving item)
How many times have you heard about someone getting a -neg for something stupid like "overcharged on shipping" - I know someone that got one for 'overcharging' by 3 cents.. yes... a -neg for 3 cents.. (years ago)
I know another person that that got a -neg for the post office taking 6 days to deliver a priority package.. (just last year)
Your good customers will out-weigh the bad, market to the good ones, target the good ones, eat the loss on the bad ones, it's not worth the lost sales from having a long, complicated, or negative policy.. Protect yourself, like with the UV stamp on things that need it. (high end antiques, computer or other equip., but don't overkill your terms..
Customers are like GOLD and should be treated like it.. Not too long ago I had a customer buy an item that they claimed was bad, I refunded the money AND send a replacement... along with my apologies for their inconvenience... (told them to do 'whatever' they wanted with the item, about $12 out of pocket) - the customer has spent hundreds with me since.
-Jim
Answer
Originally Posted by superman
Here is the link to the one I contructed and will link to in my ads.
http://www.s92255446.onlinehome.us/eBay/ebay-policy.htm
If anyone wants to comment on it, suggestions to add, change or delete things, I'm open for it.
Hmmm... Superman, no offense intended, but I've seen pages like that before... I close the page and move on to another seller.. It's just not worth my time to read..
Think about it like this...
I'm looking for a printer (I bought one last month on ebay) - I have 28 people selling the SAME printer, for about the SAME money... I don't have time to read 28 different sets of users' terms that are more then a paragraph long.. If the terms are longer then that, I move on... WHY? because I don't want to NOT read the terms if I am buying from them..
What did I do for my printer purchase? I found a seller with good feedback, terms that I could read in 'a few seconds' - and made the purchase for about $20 more then I could have spent with someone else..
People are not just reading YOUR terms, they are reading possibly 10-30 other peoples terms that are selling the same item. (thats if they read them at all. )
-Jim
PS - I've be more then happy to take a closer look at tweaking your terms if you like..