Question
Auction Talk.
Discussion of offline auctions, and online auction venues other than ebay.
I have only just noticed the change to the forum description, so figured it was time to start a new live auction thread. Even if it only gets occassional use, please feel welcome to add your experiences, the results of auctions that you have attended or have seen reported in the press. The aim is to add to knowledge, give indications of trends in prices and auction interest, and just discuss personal observations.
Kind Regards, Kevin
Added: For those who are not familiar with this style of thread, this was a previous Live Auction Results Thread here at here.
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November Came Late This Year.
Since I moved 4 years ago, I have had boomer buying over each November. For no real reason there have been good runs of deceased estate auctions over November, and relatively few over other months. Whether it is an abundance of stock, or money set aside for Christmas, the November auctions have also been relatively cheap, and my November buying has been particularly good.
This year was different. November was fairly dry. I got a little out of Melbourne from an auction house I have been covering for the last year, but the country auctions were very limited (they have been all year). I only covered one worthwhile estate, to the East of Melbourne while I was down in the area. I did get a good box of automotive literature with some photo's (including an album) of car factory interiors taken and annotated by an engineer. I made a collector pay hard for the rest of the related memorabilia in the same estate, what I got was not cheap but was under what I was prepared to pay, and will break up well. It was only the two of us who valued the paper, although there were a big lot of guys who do the auto swap meets at the auction.
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Last weekend was more interesting. I had been making plans to cover a Saturday auction in the "outback" type country about 5 plus hours north west of here. It was a clearance of a farm that had been sold, and included the residuals of the estate of the neighbour, who had died when 94 years old. It sounded like a reasonable accumulation (including old water tanks for camels, and a drover's wagon from the 19th century), but after speaking to both vendor's on the phone there was little paper, and nothing in "quantity". It is an area though, that always has gaps in the market, because it is too far out for most dealers, and while local collectors will pay hard for what they want, they miss other items of specialist interest, and I have always done well in the area.
However, I got word of paper being in an estate auction locally to be held on the Sunday. The estate was of a former shop owner (of local renown), and a related estate about 5 years ago apparently made phenomenal prices. I decided to cover a different estate auction about an hour away on the Saturday, so that there was no pressure to get back home for the Sunday auction, if the distant auction ran late.
The Saturday auction was okay. The directions were vague, and I lost 20 minutes trying to find the correct road from a village - ironically if I had take the short cut I knew into the area, I would have found the sale immediately, but I decided to follow the directions and not lose time trying to "find" the property. I got there with only minutes to spare, and unlike most farm auctions they started on the household stuff. There were a couple of boxes of books and sundries of interest, but while overall bidding was soft, there was interest in what interested me. There was a good collection of fishing gear, ranging from old to modern - it appeared to be the lifetime accumulation. I don't know fishing gear at all (although I still have a catalogue with some info ), and some of the rods were too long for my car, so I decided to chase a box of lures and spinners which were of mixed types and ages. There was a 44 gallon drum half full of rods, and when the auctioneer tried to select a couple to start with, someone yelled $250, and the crowd agreed that he put up the whole lot. They ended up making $700, and my gut says it was a cheap lot. There were old split cane rods and very early fibreglass, and, I am told there was one early Hardy, but I did not go through them because I was not equipped to carry them. I pushed the lures to $300, and a collector was the purchaser (he was the underbidder on the rods as well). I bought nothing at the auction but did well out of 2 shops on the way home, including a big collection of agricultural manuals and brochures a dealer had bought at a farm auction I had not covered on the Thursday (he advised me he had them while I was at the auction) - he got a good profit, and I got a good lot to break up (about 50/60 Ebay lots).
Sunday's estate auction of the former shop owner was interesting. It was effectively the remnants of the estate. I believe that family kept the better stuff, and mostly the quality was not great. However it was a good mix of residual items and included a good run of paper. I usually take the view that at auction, a person should decide on a value before bidding and stick firmly to that value when bidding (except when you want a scarce item personally). On this occassion, I decided on a much different approach. The paper was good and particularly covered early automotive, and brochures issued to the shop in the 1950's. Most boxes were fairly close together, and I decided that rather than valuing the boxes individually, and risking items moving (inadvertantly or deliberately) from one box to another, I would play unders and overs, and try to get the entire collection except for a collection of gas company roadmaps (mostly repeats from a service station that the deceased's brother had owned in the 1940's). I figured that if I could get the collection for $2000 (a figure only based on instinct) I would be happy. I got the first couple of lots very cheap, but the more automotive lots sold stronger. I went over on a couple of boxes, but got every lot that I was after for a total of $1220 - the dearest lot was $260. Going through it, it was better than I had expected - and I probably have about 250 Ebay lots, plus another large box to take a second dip (and some repeats) from later. It was very strong in 1915 to 1935 era car brochures, including some models I have never heard of, a few motorcycle and accessory catalogs including a 1921 Harley Davidson catalog, a small but nice run of 1950's toy catalogs, some good runs of car and oil company dealer magazines from the 1940's and 1950's, and miscelaneous obscurities that you just don't see..... A great lot of stuff.
All in all, these will put back my plans to quit Ebay by February, particularly since I will have to do an auction for my parents late January as they are moving and this will save them a lot of work and hassle - but that will be the subject of a later post.
I still have 3 auctions to cover over the next 5 days, so there may be even more to turn up before Christmas.
Cheers, Kevin
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Thanks for posting this Kevin. Unfortunately, where I live we have no auctions comparable to those that you describe, but with your thorough and vivid descriptions I'm enjoying your auctions vicariously.
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G'day Kevin,
Since November is springtime down by you it is prolly starting to warm up in Oz. Around here at least, the hottest months have a tendency to be the most sparse.
In my area, estate auctions usually take place on the same premises as country auctions, and while some are set aside for heavily promoted weekend dates, many simply wind up as part of the weekly auctions.
I've come to be leery of those heavily promoted 'special' auctions, since while I can usually pull a few sleepers out of them, prices are typically astronomical. $25 Civil War books typically do around $75. Post cards are typically over hyped and overpriced. However, sometimes these auctions have items I want for myself. On new years I hope to get some pre-Columbian items. They usually go cheap becuase most people are unfamilar with them. I once picked up a mayan statue for $20, because the thing was afterall, butt-ugly and offensive to Republicans.
But while most of these 'special' auctions are advertized as estate auctions of a single individual, in reality they are peppered with consignments from many other dealers who cut deals with the owners, so as to get higher prices.
One of my 'regular' auctions went form a weekly to bi-monthly, and did its best to pizz off the dealers by rearranging everything and trying to cater to homeowner/collectors. They did this by having another auctioneer come in and take over the dealer, or 'back room' - who cherry picks stuff and tries to hype up everything. The result has been a decline in variety and a general increase in prices as newbies fall for his claptrap. I believe he trashes ephemera, since it has become very scarce since he took over.
In the 'front room' quality has been steadily decreasing, where even jelly jars are likely to wind up in an area once reserved for their very best.
My 'other' regular auction is doing OK though flooded with Christmas stuff. OK by me since thats where I bought most presents. I grabbed a bunch of old tool company catalogs / manuals last night for a dollar. Odd since many of the folks there like that kind of stuff. I also picked up a couple vintage electronic items for the same price. Interesting night, and would've been cheap- except for a couple christmas presents we had to fight over. One we might decide to keep after all. Modern art bookends, in what looks like real marble. Books were scarce, which was a bit scarey. Something I hope does not become a trend....
I have recently started listing ephemera on the booksites. Not much luck so far. A fishing manual, model plans, and perhaps one other thing sold. Alibris rejected an entire upload of it once, but accepted them on a purge/replace. They dont particularly like ephemera, but dont forbid it either. But if customers google for it they'll find it, as Biblio has great search engine placement.
I do have a paper auction I attend at least twice yearly where I can often get good deals on obscure items, as there are only about 2-3 dozen people who attend. Unfortunately one is in the business mostly as a hobby with other primary sources of income so has no concept of profit in his bids.
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Cool Kevin - sounds like a good trip for you!
I would have loved to run across the fishing gear lots. In the past, we've done well with those on eBay.
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In my area, estate auctions usually take place on the same premises as country auctions, and while some are set aside for heavily promoted weekend dates, many simply wind up as part of the weekly auctions.
In the cities here in Australia, unless they are "upmarket", deceased estates usually go into the auction rooms, and into the weekly auction, with a few feature items possibly held over for more specialised auctions. In the country areas, they usually sell them on the premises - either in the yard around the house, or in a paddock on the farm (with the household goods in and around a shed). Only some country towns and cities even have an auction room now, although someone will generally do a somewhat regular auction at the showground or in a regular yard in most mid sized plus towns. I am in a reasonable sized twin city (about 70,000??? population), and because there is currently no auction room, I am contemplating opening one in the coming months.
When I was a kid, house clearance auctions were generally held 1:30 or 2:00 on a Saturday afternoon, now the house clearances are usually early on a Saturday, or if more interesting maybe on a Sunday, and farm clearances are generally held on a Saturday, but tend towards weekdays in some areas - quite often there is one on a Friday within a reasonable distance of here.
The interesting household trinkets seem to have dried up at the farm auctions now, even a noticeable change in the last 4 years. I don't know if it reflects better knowledge/publicity relating to old stuff or whether it is just drying up naturally, but it is definitely less available, even in circumstances where it should be turning up. House clearances on the premises usually have pretty much the whole contents, otherwise they would not be viable. It varies with the nature of the vendor, the contents of the premises, and the auctioneer whether outside stuff is included in a house clearance, and how much. Most farm clearances have a row or two of machinery from other local farmers - usually clearly seperate to the plant from the farm where the auction is held, occassionally other vendors will represent half or more of the auction - but usually it is quite clear what is from the premises, and what is from elsewhere.
..... and then there are the "stacked" house auctions, where an auctioneer or dealers will rent and fill a vacant house in a city suburb, and imply that the auction is for the "contents" of the house. Those are to be avoided......
Cheers, Kevin
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Originally Posted by corrdogg
Thanks for posting this Kevin. Unfortunately, where I live we have no auctions comparable to those that you describe, but with your thorough and vivid descriptions I'm enjoying your auctions vicariously.
Kevin, Corrdogg said exactly what I was thinking! Thanks for posting - I have always enjoyed your very informative threads!
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"..... and then there are the "stacked" house auctions, where an auctioneer or dealers will rent and fill a vacant house in a city suburb, and imply that the auction is for the "contents" of the house. Those are to be avoided......"
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Fascinating concept, actually....
I've never seen that happen here, but I have learned an inherent distrust of non-auction 'estate sales'. Many of these are run by professional services who will pepper the lot with their own stuff, at the same time keeping prices absurdly high with the purpose come Sunday evening to make the family a lowball bid for all the unsold merchandise.
Rule of thumb for estates is that unless there is a grudge match between relatives, the obviously valuable stuff is quickly grabbed by relatives.
Ignorance of this simple fact has led many historians to conclude our ancestors rarely had guns.
However, it is our job to find and buy real cheap the stuff THEY think is junk. Like dusty old books and papers.
What is fascinating is that by me there are dealers who NEVER buy outside the auction venue. Which sometimes results in the *same* item bouncing back and forth between the different auctions. Oddly, they seem to be making decent money with this tactic and never seem to give up....
OOPS! I must correct myself.... One of them is doing quite well dumping dollar store stuff at the auctions for a nice profit....
At least its nice to see fresh merch.
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Two very dull auctions on the weekend, but I was not in need of stock. Another auction tomorrow with a "major" item (for me anyway) that I have been waiting on for about a year. I hope that I will get it, and some other ephemera.
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Higher-End Auction Results From Collect It magazine (UK) - September 2004 issue, some Auction results of interest.
All prices are in Great Britain Pounds - GBP (currently it is converting at just under US $2.00 to GBP 1.00. Quoted Prices are likely to include Buyer's Premiums.
Golf Memorabilia Auction at Chrisitie's in England in July:
* Allan Robertson's Sacred Head long-nosed putter, made by Hugh Phillip, circa 1835 made GBP 23,900
* A Doulton Burslem ovoid vase in blue and white showing a golfer lining up to the ball while his caddy stands behind, made GBP 8,963.
* A Dunlop cantilever two-section golf ball tin, with "Dunlop" and "Golf Balls" written on the front, and "Dunlop - The best Golf Balls in the world" with a cartoon type golfer in the lid.
Leica, Nikon and 35 mm Cameras Auction at Chrisitie's in England in June:
* A Leica MP No.85 made GBP 16,730.
Vectis Toy Auction, July in England:
* Lehman Luxus Limousine EPL 785 - the largest of the Lehmann automobiles. (Equivalent to this but in better condition - minor scuffs to to roof and bonnet, and with original box), made GBP 3,900.
* Dinky No.234 Ferrari Racing Car, estimated GBP 200-250 sold for just over GBP 1,000 including premium.
Christie's Teddy Bear Auction in June:
* Top price was a fine Steiff PB35 bear with dark blonde shaggy mohair, one of the earliest jointed Steiff bears to appear on the market made GBP 14,340.
* A Titanic Steiff bear in black mohair, apparently made to commemorate the loss of the Titanic and 600 were ordered for the UK in 1912 - made GBP 10,775
* A fine white Steiff mohair teddy, with black button eyes and pronounced muzzle, circa1905, made GBP 5,975
*Steiff Puss-in-Boots, produced 1912 - 1917, made $4,780
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Just looking for pictures of a couple of items at Christies, and found this Auction Results summary page - it lists all the auctions held by Christies over the month complete with the gross turnover for the auction - the Teddy Bear auction on 1st December in England grossed a mere GBP 218,380.
Also found this World Auction Record for a Photograph, being a photo (appears to be a daguerotype) of Ruins at Athens from 1842 by Joseph-Philibert Girault de Prangey, and having made £565,250 in May 2003.
Cheers, Kevin
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Yesterday at auction I got ran up to $15 on a batch of old books that at one time would have cost at most $2. It didnt bother me since I spotted an $85 book right off the bat. Just figgered some new twit was trying to get into the book business.
I was wrong.
The person who was apparently bidding against me wasnt.
He came up to me to let me know the auctioneer was looking directly at him, but he WASNT BIDDING.
I always knew this auctioneer was a bit of a slimy worm, and I seen some of his other auctions that seemingly had phantom bidders, but I just chalked it up to my tendency to overlook subtleties.
Unlike most auctioneeers who are paid a flat fee, this one appears to have weasled a unique position, and is apparently getting a percentage.
I have a solution that will put him in my pocket, by stationing the other half across from me with instructions to let me know when he is ghost bidding. I'll just drop out unexpectedly and see who the 'winner' is.....
Technically auctioneers are allowed to bid, but shamming like that is definitely against the rules....
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Other than that I've noticed that overall, ebayers have been getting timid in their bidding - even the newer ones who usually come on strong. I dont know if its a reflection of the market or shortness of funds over the holiday season.
There are of course some exceptions, like where I took some kid with a cell phone up to $20 on a box of old bottles, that with only one exception was not that old. An unmarked round bottom, old but not terribly rare.
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I will prolly go broke at the New Years auction. There is a large lot of 150+ year old books I want. To keep instead of sell. And I will be bidding against people with no conception of value.... Who just might want them even more...