Question
Sorry to beat a dead horse...
I was very encouraged when eBay incorporated Int'l S&H rates and options into the SYI form. Didn't do a damn bit of good IMO! And it's not eBay's fault!
I used the shipping calculator for most of the time since they made Int'l available. Still got numerous requests for quotes, responded to each with a form signature to use the shipping calculator, they never bid, perhaps they were insulted that I wouldn't do the work for them after I'd already done it so I wouldn't have to do the work for them...you get the idea.
I even put big colored font telling people to use the shipping calculator to get International shipping quotes...
Deep breath...
(So within the last several days I switched to fixed, still including Int'l.)
Anyway, I got a winner from Australia today on a lot of PB books. The shipping calculator quoted Airmail and Surface rates for Letter Post. The bidder never asked for a quote beforehand, just bid, which should have been OK because the calculator was there for the person to get their own quote before bidding.
You know what's coming....
Got an email after I sent the invoice, very presumptuous. Buyer has only been registered since early Sept., yet informs me that there is a cheaper method of shipping called M-bag that I probably don't know about...blah, blah, blah...
He included an excerpt from a supposed email exchange with another US seller in which it's clear he got a "No" as the first response and then persisted until the "No" finally changed to a "Yes".
Then also has the nerve to tell me that if I have any more books in the set to just throw them in the box and weigh them up - IOW, offering to pay additional M-bag shipping but no additional money for the additional books (which I didn't have anyway).
So...
I responded with:
Shipping charges and methods that I use were clearly stated in the auction, available to you via the shipping calculator before you placed your bid. If you did not agree with them, you should not have bid. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it's true. Trying to negotiate terms after you've won does not sit well with me.
I do not use M-bag and will not even consider it because of past bad experiences with that method of shipping. Please pay the invoice as stated.
So I get a PayPal payment with the shipping charges subtracted out, total paid was the winning bid of 99 cents for the PB lot.
And this email (italics are my words he's responding to):
How rude. I was under the impression I was polite to you when I mailed you. I guess it was only a matter of time before I came across someone like yourself using eBay.
I have forwarded the price I agreed to pay for the lot and a bonus for you that you can resell them or do what you want with them as a matter of principle I don't want them.
Perhaps a change of attitude on your part may result in increased sales ( something for you to ponder perhaps ) ?
Trying to negotiate terms after you've won does not sit well with me.
Trying to negotiate terms after I have won excuse me !! I was under the impression I was asking a reasonable question regarding postage for the lot I won as I have had 63 books posted to me for a cheaper price than you quote for this lot of ten books ?
You have a nice day and I hope your further transactions on eBay go well and if by some remote chance you see I have bided on anything you have listed please remove my bid immediately.
I refunded the payment immediately. I don't accept partial payments and I don't take bribes. I included this note:
I don't accept partial payments. I will be filing an Unpaid Item Strike
against you for refusing to honor your winning bid.
Darn it though, because the auction ended just this morning, I can't do it until Nov. 3rd, even though this stupid jerk refuses to complete the transaction! I made a note in My eBay so I don't go one minute past my time!
Just got this email now (italics are my words he is quoting):
I don't accept partial payments.
You were paid in full for the lot. If I decide to pay you for something and tell you to keep it this is my prerogative. I have fulfilled my obligation to pay for what I bid on.
I will be filing an Unpaid Item Strike
against you for refusing to honour your winning bid
You refused the payment are you real?
If you wish to get into a slanging match over this matter go right ahead I can also forward negative remarks. I would suggest you have the ammunition to back your remarks with as I have copies of my PayPal receipt and your refusal to accept FULL payment for the lot I bid on.
Somehow, jerk, idiot, just don't seem strong enough words to describe this person.
No neg on my account yet, but I know it's coming.
I'd consider just restricting my book lots to US buyers only, but I still can't stop an International buyer from going on a buying spree, then freaking out at how much it's going to cost to ship 10 lbs. of books. I've had it happen in recent months, so I know.
Drat! I was trying so hard to continue with International shipping and there is no excuse for any of this. S&H is not a secret, it's all upfront there in my auctions for bidders to review before bidding.
But I will not continue to put MY feedback at risk because of International numpties.
Answer
I don't get it.
Bidder paid the winning bid. It wasn't a partial payment. It was the full bid price.
Asked you not to ship, and so didn't include shipping costs.
Why did you refuse the payment and what the hell are you gonna file against them?
Answer
I have a simple philosophy:
You bid, you win, you pay. Payment in full means paying for the winning bid AND the shipping. Then I ship the item.
THAT is a complete transaction.
I thought that most eBay sellers looked at it that way also.
I do believe that in numerous places on eBay, they attempt to stress that buyers are obligated to follow through with their purchases.
This does not mean paying only the winning bid and telling the sellers to keep the item.
What kind of a system would it be if buyers were allowed to get away with this crap?
Answer
Why did you refuse the payment and what the hell are you gonna file against them?
To answer your question, by accepting a PayPal payment and not shipping anything, I put myself at risk for a chargeback. Simple.
Especially with a buyer who is all attitude from the start.
Yes, I gave attitude back, obviously.
I will file an Unpaid Item Dispute. Because the buyer won't complete the transaction properly. He deserves an Unpaid Item Strike on his account.
Or should I let it go so he can continue to bid on other seller's auctions, refuse to pay for shipping when he doesn't agree with it, and not have any consequences for doing so?
I don't think so.
Answer
Originally Posted by BJGrolle
To answer your question, by accepting a PayPal payment and not shipping anything, I put myself at risk for a chargeback. Simple.
She's utterly and sadly right about that. Happened to another seller friend, Jen. The rude bidder gave Jen such a rash of crap then trumpeted they would pay the bid price and Jen could shove the item up her a$$. I regret to say I agreed with Jen just taking what the bidder offered and getting rid of them. It was causing her a great dela of stress, she doesn't like problems. However, 2 days after Jen accepted the offer & payment, the bidder filed a claim with PayPal saying they didn't get their item. Jen ended up with a lot more stress and a chargeback. Jen told me nothing she said to PP made any difference; she didn't have a tracking number and that's all PP accepts.
Now, having said all that ... I wonder if a seller could make such a deal and have the bidder use designation "service" with "no shipping address required" for the payment?
Answer
Asked you not to ship, and so didn't include shipping costs.
I don't know how anyone reading the emails that I quoted above can interpret this buyer as asking me to not ship. He told me, which is unacceptable.
We did not "mutually agree to cancel". He decided to cancel all by himself as a matter of principle.
This is not the first time in recent months that I've had an International buyer want to welch out on the deal. A Canadian buyer won an auction before the Int'l shipping integration. My auction stated that all Int'l orders ship Global Priority Mail or Airmail only. He didn't ask for a quote before bidding. After he got the invoice, he wanted to just pay me for the book and be let out of completing the transaction. He admitted he hadn't read my auction terms. He was very nice about it, but I still said no, he needed to complete the transaction. He did, I shipped, and we exchanged positive feedback.
In that case, he intended to pay me the bid price only via PayPal. The first thought I had was a potential chargeback situation. I wasn't going to open myself up to that then either, just like with this one.
Even if payment was mailed, that'd be mail fraud, if I accepted a partial payment and didn't ship. So I still wouldn't do it.
Answer
Sorry to hear that Jen had to learn the hard way.
Answer
Quote - I'd consider just restricting my book lots to US buyers only, but I still can't stop an International buyer from going on a buying spree, then freaking out at how much it's going to cost to ship 10 lbs. of books. I've had it happen in recent months, so I know. - End Quote
Hi, B.J. You can now restrict to US buyers only if that's what you want to do. eBay has it set up now in your preferences that you can check to accept bids only from the countries you want (look under buyer block preferances. After setting those, if a buyer's country is not checked in the auction they cannot even place a bid at all. If someone e'mails you from a blocked country and you decide to let them bid you can add their ID to your approved bidder list which then lets them bid even if they are in a blocked country. Hope this helps.
Answer
Well - normal shipping method for books by surface mail is M-Bag. If you are selling a lot of books, one would think you are a bookseller and know about M-Bag. If one buys a lot of books via M-Bag, one knows the rate without needing to check a shipping calculator. So if you are not willing to ship M-Bag, I would think you either should not sell internationally or put in big (very big) letters that you do not do M-Bags and please check the shipping calculator.
While you may view this as a buyer's problem, I view it more as all of us losing another potential international customer.
Answer
Laura, thank you. I do have my blocked bidder preferences set, but I've still been shipping Internationally, hoping that I'd never hit that last straw. But I think this is it.
commentary, when I was using the shipping calculator, I had
big, big letters like this telling them to please use the shipping calculator to get International quotes instantly.
And still I'd get the emails asking for quotes.
Bottom line, they don't read the terms.
I am dismayed, because I'd hoped that with the shipping costs right there in the auction, readily available for the people to see before they bid, it would put a stop to the problem of a winner expressing surprise, shock, anger, over what I'm charging for shipping.
As far as not shipping M-bag, my auction quoted Airmail Letter Post and Surface Letter Post. Yes, that's Letter Post. This was a set of paperback books weighing less than 4 lbs.
My eBay invoice lists Airmail as the first option with Surface second. The buyer was well aware of the lower Surface charge of $10-something, because he input that into the S&H field with his PayPal payment and then subtracted it in the "Other" field below that.
If one buys a lot of books via M-Bag, one knows the rate without needing to check a shipping calculator.
Are you of the opinion then that the buyer was justified in not checking the shipping calculator, if indeed that is what happened?
So if you are not willing to ship M-Bag, I would think you either should not sell internationally
It would seem so.
While you may view this as a buyer's problem, I view it more as all of us losing another potential international customer.
So be it. Myself, I don't want buyers who tell me how to ship after they've won the auction and complain that my clearly stated charges are too high.
Which they weren't.
And he finally left that neg:
Returned FULL payment for lot won over shipping query when told to keep goods
His definition of full payment and mine obviously differ.