Question
Hello all,
I primarily use the SPG Amex, but at times I need to use a Visa or Mastercard. Since I bank at Citibank, I have been using a VISA that earns ThankYou points. I'm pretty happy with ThankYou points, but am interested in what else is out there. How do you like ThankYou points for travel vs Merrill+ points?
Many thanks in advance for your opinions!
Answer
Hello all,
I primarily use the SPG Amex, but at times I need to use a Visa or Mastercard. Since I bank at Citibank, I have been using a VISA that earns ThankYou points. I'm pretty happy with ThankYou points, but am interested in what else is out there. How do you like ThankYou points for travel vs Merrill+ points?
Many thanks in advance for your opinions!
From my recent understanding i think ThankYou is better than Merrill+ or World points. because thank you has the most bonus points and points donot expire (like merrill and WP - 5 years). Only thing better *might* be Chase Flexible rewards that allows you to transfer 6000/12000 points -> 5000/10000 miles on CO, UA or BA. But i guess it depends on your spending. I feel AGR is the best companion (but need to wait for 2 more months for that!).
Answer
Merrill+ gets my vote. But only for keeping 50,001 points on it for +3 level benefits. I divide other charges between AMEX Plat and SPG.
Also I am no fan of Citi. They have a way of dealing with people like the Borg on Star Trek.
budugu...What is AGR?
Thanks
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Merrill+ has these advantages:
0. Merrill+ benefits , including insurance or concierge service, are stronger than SPG or most of Citi's Thank You cards.
1. Merrill+ points can be redeemed in blocks of 5,000 for British Airways miles. If you are transferring Starpoints to BA and if your VISA/Mastercard charge volume is small this is a straightforward pairing.
2. 25,000 Merrill+ points can be redeemed for an airline ticket valued up to $500 on AA, BA, CO or DL. This is superior to Thank You Network's 25,000 point fixed flight option because you can choose the exact flights you want and they will let you choose a different carrier or more expensive tickets for a reasonable surcharge.
Otherwise, Thank You seems better because the Fixed Flight Option includes higher redemption levels, it's easy to earn more than one point per dollar, and there are other ways to earn points through banking with Citi or shopping on the Thank You website.
Amtrak Guest Rewards (AGR) is not a program in which I am comfortable accumulating points. Their track record of wiping out redemption options without notice speaks for itself.
Answer
Merrill+ gets my vote. But only for keeping 50,001 points on it for +3 level benefits. I divide other charges between AMEX Plat and SPG.
Also I am no fan of Citi. They have a way of dealing with people like the Borg on Star Trek.
budugu...What is AGR?
Thanks
As MIA poinTed ouT AGR = Amtrak Guest Rewards.
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Its a trade off between benefits and rewards:
1. If you will spend $20k+ and the Merrill+ benefits are attractive to you, go with the Merrill+ card. These benefits have real value to me.
2. If you want rewards, I think that the Citi Professional Card (up to 3pts per $), Citi Premier Pass (up to 2pts per $) or Premier Pass Elite (up to 4 points per $) will provide you will superior reward rate per $ over Merrill+
3. Also, consider the fact that you can get substantial initial bonus points with the Citibank cards. Merrill+ runs a bonus offer every now and then, but it is tied to a $20k deposit with Merrill Lynch.
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The OP asked about Travel rewards (not concierge benefits, not insurance, not toilet paper savings, etc...)
To anyone, pls could you elencate how could the MErrill+ card beat a TYN card such as the PPE in travel rewards?? If there is a strategy id like to know.
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The OP asked about Travel rewards (not concierge benefits, not insurance, not toilet paper savings, etc...)
To anyone, pls could you elencate how could the Merrill+ card beat a TYN card such as the PPE in travel rewards?? If there is a strategy id like to know.
I covered this very explicitly in my posting. MIA covered this as well. Here is a summary: Merrill+ may provide more flexibility in reward travel. However, you will typically earn more reward points with TY card, e.g. you can earn up to 5 points per $ with TY. Merrill+ only gives you 1 point per $. You can earn 2-3 tickets with TY vs. one ticket on Merrill+ for the same spend.
If you have moderate spending < $20k, Merrill+ is not the card for you. There are other cards that offer a higher reward rate. If you will spend $20k or $50k on the card, then Merrill+ starts to make sense because of the benefits. (I do not consider a complimentary AA or DL club membership "toliet paper savings".)
If you have high spending, Merrill+ is attractive due to the benefits and the fact that points are unlimited. All of the Citi cards have point limits (except for Chairman).
So...it really is not quite that simple.
Answer
Its a trade off between benefits and rewards:
1. If you will spend $20k+ and the Merrill+ benefits are attractive to you, go with the Merrill+ card. These benefits have real value to me.
2. If you want rewards, I think that the Citi Professional Card (up to 3pts per $), Citi Premier Pass (up to 2pts per $) or Premier Pass Elite (up to 4 points per $) will provide you will superior reward rate per $ over Merrill+
3. Also, consider the fact that you can get substantial initial bonus points with the Citibank cards. Merrill+ runs a bonus offer every now and then, but it is tied to a $20k deposit with Merrill Lynch.
How is the above explicit to TRAVEL REWARDS??
2. If you want rewards, I think that the Citi Professional Card (up to 3pts per $), Citi Premier Pass (up to 2pts per $) or Premier Pass Elite (up to 4 points per $) will provide you will superior reward rate per $ over Merrill+
The above also is EXPLICIT to REWARDS... therefore not TRAVEL REWARDS ans the OP stated.
Your correct, Dennis touched on it in a comprehensive fashion and wasnt alluding to him...
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I covered this very explicitly in my posting. MIA covered this as well. Here is a summary: Merrill+ may provide more flexibility in reward travel.
How so?
If you have moderate spending < $20k, Merrill+ is not the card for you. There are other cards that offer a higher reward rate.
How so for TRAVEL REWARDS?
If you will spend $20k or $50k on the card, then Merrill+ starts to make sense because of the benefits. (I do not consider a complimentary AA or DL club membership "toliet paper savings".)
Never said comp AA and DL amount to toilet paper savings... so dont understand why you are quoting me. In fact to some it might.
If you have high spending, Merrill+ is attractive due to the benefits and the fact that points are unlimited. All of the Citi cards have point limits (except for Chairman).
And how is this relevant to TRAVEL REWARDS?
So...it really is not quite that simple.
EXACTLY!!!
Answer
1. How can Merrill+ be more flexible than TY from MIA...
25,000 Merrill+ points can be redeemed for an airline ticket valued up to $500 on AA, BA, CO or DL. This is superior to Thank You Network's 25,000 point fixed flight option because you can choose the exact flights you want and they will let you choose a different carrier or more expensive tickets for a reasonable surcharge.
2. Why is Merrill a bad choice for spending less than $20k per year.
You only get 1 point per $ on Merrill+. You get 2+ points per $ on many Citicards. The value of Merrill comes from the benefits, not just the points. If all you want is points and redemption, then Merrill+ is the wrong card. You can get more points per $ with Citi.
Here is an example: The max value for a 25,000 point ticket on ML+ is $500. On a PPE, I can earn greater than 2 points per $. If I earned 2.5 points per $, I could buy a $500 ticket on TY Network Variable Rewards for 50,000 points which is $20,000 in spending. Also, Citi offers points from (a) initial sign-up and (b) ongoing banking relationships. This makes Citi a clear choice for VOLUME of rewards.
On the other hand if AA status or AA/DL Club membership have value to you. This may tip the scale. The point is...most people that are interested in Merrill+ are interested in the benefits, not just the points. If you are only interested in travel rewards Citi is probably better. (There is one little advantage that Merrill+ has in Ritz Carlton rewards).
3. How is a point limit relevant to travel rewards...
We do not know the OP's annual spend. If the spend is large enough it will exceed the point limits on Citi TY cards. Thereby reducing the reward value that can be attained in a particular year. This is why some travellers choose unlimited cards like Merrill+, Diners Club, AMEX MR, AMEX SPG, etc. If you are only going to carry one MC, then at least make sure that you can earn points for your spend. This is probably a remote consideration in this case, but point limits should be considered.
Answer
1. How can Merrill+ be more flexible than TY from MIA...
25,000 Merrill+ points can be redeemed for an airline ticket valued up to $500 on AA, BA, CO or DL. This is superior to Thank You Network's 25,000 point fixed flight option because you can choose the exact flights you want and they will let you choose a different carrier or more expensive tickets for a reasonable surcharge.
Who's to say that TYN's 25k fixed flight point redemtion value is less than $500 on the redeemed ticket? Therefore how can Merrill + be more flexibile?? If anything its the other way around, right??
We do not know the OP's annual spend.
SPOT ON!!!
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Who's to say that TYN's 25k fixed flight point redemtion value is less than $500 on the redeemed ticket? Therefore how can Merrill + be more flexibile?? If anything its the other way around, right??
SPOT ON!!!
I did not mean that TYN 25k flight point redemption value was less than $500. This is true of ML+. The greater flexibility (on the surface) is that you can book any flight under $500 on ML+ for 25,000 points. Citi restricts you to 2 weeks in advance and a Saturday stay for 25k. So comparing "points vs. points" (without considering the rate at which you accumulate them) Merrill+ could be considered more flexible. If you consider the fact that I could earn TY points twice as fast, I think that TYN is a better value. (The example of TYN Variable Point Awards in my previous post makes this clear.)
To make this comparison more concrete...consider a couple scenarios:
a. PP Elite vs. Merrill+
If you spend enough to make up for the annual fee, I think that PP Elite wins except for (1) people who would use the Merrill+2/+3 benefits, or (2) people that spend so much that they are over the point earning limit on PPE
b. Citi Platinum AMEX vs. Merrill+
Merrill+ wins because Citi Platinum AMEX only gives 1 point per $
etc...
Answer
Thanks for the excellent posts by awake.
Since I spend over $100,000 per month accross AMEX plat, SPG, and Merrill+. This rules out Citi for me and others who run business charges thru their cards. Citi (except for Chairman) is not after business spending as far as I can tell. This makes no sense to me. Maybe that's why DC is now a Citi product? Anyway, I don't keep nearly as many points on Merrill+ as I do on the other two cards.
My point is that how much you plan to spend on the card, as well as how fast you plan to use your points (5 yr expiration on Merrill+), are key factors in deciding which card is right for you.
Answer
Since I spend over $100,000 per month accross AMEX plat, SPG, and Merrill+. This rules out Citi for me and others who run business charges thru their cards. Citi (except for Chairman) is not after business spending as far as I can tell. This makes no sense to me. Maybe that's why DC is now a Citi product? Anyway, I don't keep nearly as many points on Merrill+ as I do on the other two cards. AMEX has been great to me over the years.
I wont discuss my spending patterns but are substantial hence had similar problem. I recently applied for a second PPE and will do so again shortly. Therefore your spending patterns do NOT rule out Citi for you.
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I did not mean that TYN 25k flight point redemption value was less than $500. This is true of ML+. The greater flexibility (on the surface) is that you can book any flight under $500 on ML+ for 25,000 points. Citi restricts you to 2 weeks in advance and a Saturday stay for 25k. So comparing "points vs. points" (without considering the rate at which you accumulate them) Merrill+ could be considered more flexible. If you consider the fact that I could earn TY points twice as fast... I think that TYN is a better value.
Agreed but then me and you have a different meaning for "flexibile."
What your saying is(pls correct me if Im wrong) that the more "flexibility" in M+ is the mere fact of no advance purchase restrictions (which is only 14days for TYN) and the Saturday night requirement for TYN?
FYI, TYN diregards the $500 M+ rule AND (probably the most significant flexibile feature) as you mention has a much more ease of earning of TYNs which gets you to your ultimate goal of a FREE TICKET.
To me flexibility is VALUE and program restrictions. Frankly the $500 Cap/ticket is more of a burden than saturday night stay and 14day advance purchase, but thats just me i guess....
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I wont discuss my spending patterns but are substantial hence had similar problem. I recently applied for a second PPE and will do so again shortly. Therefore your spending patterns do NOT rule out Citi for you.
That would be too many PPE's for me. That's great if it works for you.
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the more "flexibility" in M+ is the mere fact of no advance purchase restrictions (which is only 14days for TYN) and the Saturday night requirement for TYN?
Merrill+ lets the cardholder choose the carrier (from four), routing, times, while Citi offers the lowest cost flight without regard to those factors. This means (for example) that with 25000 Merrill+ points you may be able to fly nonstop when Citi would put you on a connecting flight at obnoxious times of day.
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Merrill+ lets the cardholder choose the carrier (from four), routing, times, while Citi offers the lowest cost flight without regard to those factors. This means (for example) that with 25000 Merrill+ points you may be able to fly nonstop when Citi would put you on a connecting flight at obnoxious times of day.
That was my experience with TY, there were available seats on multiple carriers non-stop from NY to Miami - 14 days in advance - all costing $600+ if bought outright. But, on the Sunday I wanted to fly, they would not give me one of these flights, and said I had to fly a cheaper connecting flight.
I did however have flexibility in my schedule, so for 20,000 TY points, I got on a non-stop on the next day.
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merrill has the 2nd best ritz carlton awards, and best private jet awards (which makes it my alternate to amex spg and plat)
it also has BA as a transfer partner
http://flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=673941
mia compared the strengths and weaknesses of TYN and miles VERY specifically in this thread, answering ALL reponses to his examples/etc.
Merrill+ lets the cardholder choose the carrier (from four), routing, times, good to know ^
also for TYN multiple PPEs will be cheaper than Chairman card, which wont even be publicly available for a while.
ML+ points expire after 5 years?
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I think as some one mentioned in some SPG thread; forget about TYN or Merill+ just churn airline cards every year or so. Even if you donot get the bonus miles you should be able to atleast get one of the cards for free. With offering of various shades of cards + business cards it should be fairly simple. And 1-2 enquiries per year should not be that bad either. That is what looks like the most promising of the lot.
Yes ML and World points expire after 5 years.
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TYN = especially good for people who maintain many statuses
ML+ = 2nd best RC and best private jet
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I think as some one mentioned in some SPG thread; forget about TYN or Merill+ just churn airline cards every year or so. Even if you donot get the bonus miles you should be able to atleast get one of the cards for free. With offering of various shades of cards + business cards it should be fairly simple. And 1-2 enquiries per year should not be that bad either. That is what looks like the most promising of the lot.
Yes ML and World points expire after 5 years.
I think that you can have both:
a. A good primary/secondary rewards program
b. Churn other affinity cards to make bonuses
For those who want rapid rewards, TYN is excellent AND you can churn the ~50 different TY cards that Citibank offers.
Merrill+ offers great benefits that you cannot get via churning.
You can certainly churn AA, etc. to gain extra miles.
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Merrill+ gets my vote. But only for keeping 50,001 points on it for +3 level benefits. I divide other charges between AMEX Plat and SPG.
I'm confused... according to their site:
"Achievement of +2 and/or +3 level status will be based on the total value of net retail purchases charged to the card each year"
https://card.ml.com/MLRewardsCenter/View-Cards/MERRILL-Plus/ML-Cards-Merrill-Plus-Benefits.htm
I would think this reads that status is based on total $$$ spent on the card each year, not mileage balance. In other words, I need to consistently spend $50k every year on the card to get a free Crown Room pass each year? Am I incorrect?
And also, another post mentioned the ML+ does not have any advance purchase requirement, but according to their site, less than 21 days is 5k more miles:
"**Tickets up to $500 in value. Tickets include all taxes, security charges and booking fees. Redeem additional Merrill Points in increments of 2,500 for an additional $25 of ticket value. 21-day advance notice required. Tickets booked within 21 days require 5,000 additional points. "
https://card.ml.com/MLRewardsCenter/Rewards/Travel/
Am I misunderstanding this, or have they changed the T&C's?
Greg
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this reads that status is based on total $$$ spent on the card each year, not [points] balance.
Correct. I believe the previous poster meant "keeping" in the sense of restricting spending to $50,001 per year, not in the sense of maintaining a 50,000 point balance.
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I'm confused... according to their site:
"Achievement of +2 and/or +3 level status will be based on the total value of net retail purchases charged to the card each year"
https://card.ml.com/MLRewardsCenter/View-Cards/MERRILL-Plus/ML-Cards-Merrill-Plus-Benefits.htm
I would think this reads that status is based on total $$$ spent on the card each year, not mileage balance. In other words, I need to consistently spend $50k every year on the card to get a free Crown Room pass each year? Am I incorrect?
And also, another post mentioned the ML+ does not have any advance purchase requirement, but according to their site, less than 21 days is 5k more miles:
"**Tickets up to $500 in value. Tickets include all taxes, security charges and booking fees. Redeem additional Merrill Points in increments of 2,500 for an additional $25 of ticket value. 21-day advance notice required. Tickets booked within 21 days require 5,000 additional points. "
https://card.ml.com/MLRewardsCenter/Rewards/Travel/
Am I misunderstanding this, or have they changed the T&C's?
Greg
Actually after checking last years program guide, the 21-day advance restriction was in place last year.
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Correct. I believe the previous poster meant "keeping" in the sense of restricting spending to $50,001 per year, not in the sense of maintaining a 50,000 point balance.
Thanks for explaining that Mia. That's exactly what I meant. Spend $50k on the card to maintain +3 Level each year. Then make sure to use up your Merrill+ points before AMEX Plat points or SPG points since the latter two programs have no expiration.
Here, the advantage of Merrill+ is getting the exact flights you want, on the airline you want, without capacity controls or Sat nite stays. The 2,500 points for $25 of ticket value (for first class for example) is fair IMHO. It's also nice to earn miles on the flights as well.
Unfortunately, the new AMEX Plat companion program DOES have capacity controls. I just ran into this yesterday.