Question
Does anyone happen to know if my United Platinum Visa card includes any sort of automatic insurance for rental cars? I couldn't find it on the Chase website.
Recent rental car problem, when I returned it in Germany they went over it with a magnifying class and found two little scratches in the paint. Told me their "expert" would have to see it and they made me sign a blank credit card slip. Ho ho, this is going to be fun.
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All the Visa Signature cards have car rental insurance. Give Chase a call, and they should be able to point you in the right direction.
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Does anyone happen to know if my United Platinum Visa card includes any sort of automatic insurance for rental cars? I couldn't find it on the Chase website.
Recent rental car problem, when I returned it in Germany they went over it with a magnifying class and found two little scratches in the paint. Told me their "expert" would have to see it and they made me sign a blank credit card slip. Ho ho, this is going to be fun.
This link (http://www.usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_dmg_waiver_personal.html?it=c|/personal/cards/credit/visa_platinum%2Ehtml|Auto%20Rental%20Collision%20D amage%20Waiver%20%E2%80%93%20Personal) tells you all about it. If things are still unclear call Chase and they might tell you even more.
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Told me their "expert" would have to see it and they made me sign a blank credit card slip.
Hmmm, I am not an expert in this, but I would probably not sign a blank credit card slip. They already have my signature and credit card number on the rental agreement that spells out what I am responsible for.
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All these cards carry RCI, all are secondary to your primary rental car insurance. The only card that is primary, would be the diners club card. 95$ a year gets you complete piece of mind for all rental car activities.
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All these cards carry RCI, all are secondary to your primary rental car insurance.
Most are, however, primary outside of the US. (The OP asked about Germany.)
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I'm moving this to the Other Credit Card Programs forum. Thanks for your understanding.
iluv2fly
Moderator, UA
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Most are, however, primary outside of the US. (The OP asked about Germany.)
can you point that out somewhere. Both my amex and platinum united visa declare secondary, regardless of rental location.
If either of them are primary OOUSA that would REALLY be news.
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can you point that out somewhere. Both my amex and platinum united visa declare secondary, regardless of rental location.
If either of them are primary OOUSA that would REALLY be news.
The distinction for many US residents--including me--the distinction doesn't actually make much of a difference, as most US auto insurance isn't valid outside of the US and Canada. (So it may very well be secondary, but there is no primary, so it becomes primary.)
Nonetheless, my Visa (the card I use for international transactions) explicitly states that coverage is primary outside of "country of residence". Based on past readings of other policies I thought that was fairly standard, but I don't keep up on the insurance T&C changes on my other cards because I don't use them for rental cars.
From Visa:
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_dmg_waiver_personal.html#anchor_11
Outside your country of residence or if you do not have automobile insurance, this benefit is primary in those countries where it is available, and in that case, you do not have to claim payment from any other source of insurance before receiving the benefits.
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can you point that out somewhere. Both my amex and platinum united visa declare secondary, regardless of rental location.
If either of them are primary OOUSA that would REALLY be news.
It may be news to you because you dont read the fine print carefully enough. The coverage is PRIMARY outside the country of residence, except the excluded countries in which CC do not cover them at all - the only exceptions on the list are Australia and New Zealand - they are on the excluded countries lists of AMEX and MC, but not on Visa's list. Visa covers Australia and New Zealand, though Visa is the technical secondary insurance because of the unique government regulations in these 2 countries. Too much OT here to discuss the situation of these 2 countries.
In country of residence if you dont have own car insurance, or your car insurance is liability, the CC coverage becomes PRIMARY. I am speaking from experience.
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It may be news to you because you dont read the fine print carefully enough. The coverage is PRIMARY outside the country of residence, except the excluded countries in which CC do not cover them at all - the only exceptions on the list are Australia and New Zealand - they are on the excluded countries lists of AMEX and MC, but not on Visa's list. Visa covers Australia and New Zealand, though Visa is the technical secondary insurance because of the unique government regulations in these 2 countries. Too much OT here to discuss the situation of these 2 countries.
In country of residence if you dont have own car insurance, or your car insurance is liability, the CC coverage becomes PRIMARY. I am speaking from experience.
certainly, if one doesn't have any insurance, a secondary becomes a primary, so thank you for that lesson.
as for the TOC's, I looked back on my Visa T&Cs from the last mailing, and it had no disitinction for COR, or primary in any event. It would appear that the new signature, platinum and whatnot cards ( which I do have, but indeed as you pointed out had not read the change to TOC's ) which had a change to the TOC's as of 03/06, now note primary when OOC, "where applicable" which I have no idea what that means,
I still would consider the DC card the only primary (which I did give up last year) and the Visas as secondary that MIGHT be primary, but also MIGHT report to your insuarnce company and MIGHT also only over any deductable that your PRIMARY insurance would charge you.
I think i'll give them a call and get a full explanation. As is typical the T&C's don't really give a 100% clear understanding of the expected result.
I wouldn't want to learn it the hard way: e.g., which I do have experience in, where the rental company accepts the settlement, but then bills a "loss of usage" amount, which is NOT covered by the credit card company regardless of the primary or secondary coverage for any accident. LOU clauses don't seem to be covered in these T&C's at all.
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Someone wrote to Conde Nast's ombudsman about their unhappy experience with American Express insurance coverage. They rented from Enterprise somewhere in the SW (NM?) and the rental contract specified that the car was not to be taken on unpaved roads. They were following others along a gravel road, when their car fishtailed and rolled. The vehicle was totaled and they were presented a bill for $18K. Enterprise said they would not have denied coverage in that situation, but American Express refused to pay saying that the cardholder had violated the terms of Enterprise's rental contract and they would not pay for the loss. $18K!!! (The fellow was an ex-pat American living in Mexico and it was not said whether he had any other coverage that might come into play. And the ombudsman did not suggest that he get himself a lawyer to go at it with AmEx, though that is what I would have advised him. Perhaps he could have complained about AmEx's refusal to pay notwithstanding Enterprise's position on the accident to the state's insurance commissioner, who might or might now have some authority over AmEx in his/her state.)
Does anyone know of a good article summarizing all the ins and outs of insurance on a rental car, including overseas rentals? What the car rental agencies charge for coverage is simply outrageous IMO, but I am always a bit concerned about being gapped or bare relying on my own auto coverage and whatever credit card I am using at the time.
Any thoughts about the coverage different cards provide for car rentals, which, if any, are superior or inferior?
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It may be news to you because you dont read the fine print carefully enough. The coverage is PRIMARY outside the country of residence, except the excluded countries in which CC do not cover them at all - the only exceptions on the list are Australia and New Zealand - they are on the excluded countries lists of AMEX and MC, but not on Visa's list. Visa covers Australia and New Zealand, though Visa is the technical secondary insurance because of the unique government regulations in these 2 countries. Too much OT here to discuss the situation of these 2 countries.
In country of residence if you dont have own car insurance, or your car insurance is liability, the CC coverage becomes PRIMARY. I am speaking from experience.
Australia and New Zealand are not the only countries the CCs may not cover. Israel, Ireland, and Jamaica are some other ones that may be excluded. If it would be OT to discuss here the situation in any of these, especially Australia and New Zealand, and it is discussed elsewhere, I'd like to know where it is explained. (In Nov/Dec, we rented in countries and were told something about how it related to those countries requirements that some insurance coverage be folded into the daily car rental rate. But why should the purchase or provision of additional coverage ever be cause to knock out what the CC would otherwise give?)
I did know what differences there might be between AmEx, Visa, and MC, and it is hard to keep track of them. Are the details consistent with each, so that coverage is always the same no matter which type (or issuer) of AmEx, Visa or MC, or do they vary according to the product, e.g., better coverage with "gold" or "platinum" or whatever? (Again, can anyone point me to a good summary of differences between the cards with respect to car rental coverage?)
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I wouldn't want to learn it the hard way: e.g., which I do have experience in, where the rental company accepts the settlement, but then bills a "loss of usage" amount, which is NOT covered by the credit card company regardless of the primary or secondary coverage for any accident. LOU clauses don't seem to be covered in these T&C's at all.
Not true. Many (most?) credit cards do indeed cover loss of use charges. Once again, from Visa:
What is covered?
Valid loss-of-use charges imposed and substantiated by the auto rental company through a fleet utilization log.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_dmg_waiver_personal.html#anchor_5
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Not true. Many (most?) credit cards do indeed cover loss of use charges. Once again, from Visa:
What is covered?
Valid loss-of-use charges imposed and substantiated by the auto rental company through a fleet utilization log.
http://usa.visa.com/personal/cards/benefits/bft_dmg_waiver_personal.html#anchor_5
So, I have to say, and again this is FROM EXPERIENCE. The stated information that there is coverage, is only as good as ones ability to get it out of the credit card company, or possilbly the rental car vendor.
In order to get a refund for loss of use, the card holder is unforutnatly in the postion of needing to require that there was a loss, NOT the rental company. The CREDIT CARD company must engage as proxy for the renter and request all documents related to the rental locations inventory and supply, for this is not made avaialable to the end user. The rental car company is then required to PROVE that all other vehicles were engaged at the time, resulting in the loss of use. This is not a no brainer, it becomes a fight at some point between the renter and the CREDIT CARD company to get them to act. In my 25 years of international and domestic rental, I have received this level of action only from AMEX and DINERS, historically for me at least, VISA was not an option, as VISA was not in the market to make this type of coverage a perk and value of using VISA internationally.
Just because it says it in the T&C's, it does not make it happen at all.
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So, I have to say, and again this is FROM EXPERIENCE. The stated information that there is coverage, is only as good as ones ability to get it out of the credit card company, or possilbly the rental car vendor.
In order to get a refund for loss of use, the card holder is unforutnatly in the postion of needing to require that there was a loss, NOT the rental company. The CREDIT CARD company must engage as proxy for the renter and request all documents related to the rental locations inventory and supply, for this is not made avaialable to the end user. The rental car company is then required to PROVE that all other vehicles were engaged at the time, resulting in the loss of use. This is not a no brainer, it becomes a fight at some point between the renter and the CREDIT CARD company to get them to act. In my 25 years of international and domestic rental, I have received this level of action only from AMEX and DINERS, historically for me at least, VISA was not an option, as VISA was not in the market to make this type of coverage a perk and value of using VISA internationally.
Just because it says it in the T&C's, it does not make it happen at all.
Since one charged the rental with the CC, and hence the rental agency will or won't be paid by the CC issuer, doesn't the CC issuer have a great deal of leverage with the car rental agency? It seems to me because of this special relationship between the parties (rental agency - customer - CC issuer), one might expect more success with the CC issuer carrying the insurance ball than the primary insurance company carrying it. How is rental agency going to collect extra money for LOU if CC issuer won't pay because rental agency has not proven a loss? If rental agency can't get paid by charging CC for LOU, then what recourse other than to sue the customer, who should be able to look to CC issuer and/or primary insurance for a defense.
Is anyone sufficiently insecure with insurance arrangements that they pay the rental agency's outrageous fees for daily coverage?
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First of all, I never pay the rental car insurance, it is of course a valid cost / benefit analysis, based on my driving skill, calculation of risk, probability of accident, understanding of accident rates, and theft in the countries that I am renting. I DO buy the insurance in places like Poland, Czech repuplic, but for the most part rent from companies which have insurances included in those areas.
That said, of course the CC should have more leverage, the issue is, the Rental agency will simply accept the primary insurance (your insurance if you have it, or the secondary that becomes primary in SOME areas) for the covered amounts for damage, etc. For LOU, the rental agency will send this charge right to you, on your credit card charge as they are they allowed to do. It is at this point, that the CC issuer will expect you to pay it, or to start the process of having the CC issuer to contest this amount (this cannot be considered a dispute, they have to CONTEST the validity of the data - that ALL other vehicles of any type, or that type were rented) In the case of say an SUV in a winter location, or performance car in Germany, the case for LOU goes beyond just not having ANY cars available, but such and such type of car available. Trust me, I've BEEN there. So, x1000's of $$ of charges from X rental company sit somewhere, it cannot be considered a dispute at this time, so you have to work it out with the CC company how they are going to handle the change. Worst case, you lose the contestation, your CC says the charge is valid (in the event one isn't covered for LOU losses) and you get the bill plus interest, plus failure to pay. Now, these last points should be reversable with a good card company.
Again, I am not advocating the purchase of supplimental insurance (unless you are planning on a rental car rallye or some such :-) )
but, as is true with MOST types of insurance, it doesn't just magically make everything easy, better, efficient, or cost less.