Question
I was attempting to buy a PS3 today online from sony.com, had it in my cart, and was checking out, when my Chairmans card was not accepted. I then tried another Citi card that I have (Gold AA), and that was not accepted either. By this time, of course, PS3's were out of stock, and I didn't have time to try another banks card, as Citibank is always my first choice. So I immediately call the 800 # on the back of the card, enter in my card number, and get connected to a recording that says "Our offices are closed, goodbye". And then hung up on. I try again. Same thing. Finally I call, and keep pressing 0 until I get a human. I find out that NO ONE in all of Citibank can access my credit card accounts until 7am CST. Citibank says my account has been locked by security for "my safety", and to "protect us from a large loss".
Well, needless to say, I got rather livid. I mentioned that for a $400 a year card to have put a lock on ALL Citibank accounts, and to NOT have ANYONE available to address this issue 24/7 is just unacceptable. I got a whole bunch of "I agree with you sir, but there is nothing I can do." Since they cannot send a message to the top secret security department, I need to call them first thing in the morning to try to get my card working.
I understand that banks and credit cards lock cards when they see odd purchases, but to not leave a message on my cell phone or home phone number (both of which Citi has) that my card would not be USABLE until I call them back, and only between certain hours I find to be ridiculous. I will post as soon as I hear from them tomorrow, but this REALLY pisses me off.
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I was attempting to buy a PS3 today online from sony.com, had it in my cart, and was checking out, when my Chairmans card was not accepted. I then tried another Citi card that I have (Gold AA), and that was not accepted either. By this time, of course, PS3's were out of stock, and I didn't have time to try another banks card, as Citibank is always my first choice. So I immediately call the 800 # on the back of the card, enter in my card number, and get connected to a recording that says "Our offices are closed, goodbye". And then hung up on. I try again. Same thing. Finally I call, and keep pressing 0 until I get a human. I find out that NO ONE in all of Citibank can access my credit card accounts until 7am CST. Citibank says my account has been locked by security for "my safety", and to "protect us from a large loss".
Well, needless to say, I got rather livid. I mentioned that for a $400 a year card to have put a lock on ALL Citibank accounts, and to NOT have ANYONE available to address this issue 24/7 is just unacceptable. I got a whole bunch of "I agree with you sir, but there is nothing I can do." Since they cannot send a message to the top secret security department, I need to call them first thing in the morning to try to get my card working.
I understand that banks and credit cards lock cards when they see odd purchases, but to not leave a message on my cell phone or home phone number (both of which Citi has) that my card would not be USABLE until I call them back, and only between certain hours I find to be ridiculous. I will post as soon as I hear from them tomorrow, but this REALLY pisses me off.
Sorry to say it's not surprising.. I bet ALOT of people were saving up stolen CC #'s to attempt fraudulent purchases of PS3's. These scenarios cause legitimate folks hardships. While full service from your credit card bank 24/7 would be great, especially for a $400/yr card, I suspect this is not all that uncommon....
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Not unusual at all. My college-age daughter camped out at WalMart to purchase one using a Chase card with a huge credit limit of which she is an authorized user. Her purchase was declined twice at checkout and finally approved after she spoke with someone at Chase. I then received a call the following day from Chase's fraud department asking me if the charge was valid. While I appreciate fraud protection, a $650.00 charge locking a card up to me is a bit aggressive.
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While I appreciate fraud protection, a $650.00 charge locking a card up to me is a bit aggressive.
The key thing to note is that it's their money at risk, not yours. So it's not your risk tolerance that determines the aggressiveness, but theirs.
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The key thing to note is that it's their money at risk, not yours. So it's not your risk tolerance that determines the aggressiveness, but theirs.
This is partially true. But they DO try to get you to make their cards and bank the only ones you need. If I were stuck out of town, with only Citibank cards, there was literally NOTHING they could do to help me until security arrived in the morning. THAT is irresponsible. I found out that what they claim was "suspicious activity" was nothing more than a $20 phone company charge, and a $1000 toy store charge...nothing thats completely out of the ordinary for my account. In a world where most everything is moving towards being cashless, this is something thats going to present itself more and more...I don't necessarily know the answer, but I DO know that having no one available to even address the problem is NOT the answer. I expect to hear Monday about having my annual fee waived due to this ridiculous and in my opinion irresponsible catch 22.
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If I were stuck out of town, with only Citibank cards, there was literally NOTHING they could do to help me until security arrived in the morning. THAT is irresponsible.
Always carry a backup card. Chase/Amex, whatever.
Not only for the over the top Citi scenario you outlined, but what if you wife/SO carried your citibank cards and has her purse stolen?
I really like the way Amex's issues a different number for each user
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Oh, I do. Don't get me wrong...but they TRY to tell you that their products are all you need...
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I agree with you that your chairman card should not have been declined on whatever the charge...they can put an internal hold and check back with you before they went thru with the charge....
This is exactly the reason why I left AMEX except the fact that their credit fraud dept did not call me after they blocked my Plat card for over a month and I only found that out in Brazil....
Call Chairman today and explain to them what happend and how they plan on compensating you for the lost PS3 as well as the embarrasment caused by this situation....
Ask them for an X amt of pts and then use the pts to get a PS3 thru TY network thru wish fufilled...
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I had a $7k charge declined (actually Citi said they sent a "call for authorization" message, but who knows?), so I just moved it to Amex instead. I'm sure they know their fraud traps are pretty aggressive, so they've taken a calculated position, with the understanding that they're going to lose some sales. About a half hour after this all went down (on Saturday), I did call the number on the back of the card, and got a nice CSR who told me how it occurred. Oh well. . . .
BTW - the notion that this should result in a free PS3 is an insane one, IMO.
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I missed out on the LCA (Cyprus) mistake fare because Citi locked my card up--they denied the charge and by the time I was able to approve it, Alitalia had already locked my intinerary. I was livid!!!
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I had a $7k charge declined (actually Citi said they sent a "call for authorization" message, but who knows?), so I just moved it to Amex instead. I'm sure they know their fraud traps are pretty aggressive, so they've taken a calculated position, with the understanding that they're going to lose some sales. About a half hour after this all went down (on Saturday), I did call the number on the back of the card, and got a nice CSR who told me how it occurred. Oh well. . . .
BTW - the notion that this should result in a free PS3 is an insane one, IMO.
Why is it an insane one? You pay 400/yr to have a card that has an unlimited amt of spending depending on your pmts of course....you should be able to buy what you want, when you want....I would be pissed off and would demand something....
BTW...I just charged an used 350Z (weekend toy) on the Chairman Card....did not call for preauthorization...approx $27,000 with TTL....if it did not go thru, I would have called them right there and then and had it authorized....but it went thru without a glitch...they keep me happy...
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Why is it an insane one? You pay 400/yr to have a card that has an unlimited amt of spending depending on your pmts of course....you should be able to buy what you want, when you want....I would be pissed off and would demand something....
[snip]Why? Because it is unreasonable to expect Citi to provide you with a free item because said item didn't go through on your credit card. If the $27,000 car didn't go through, and someone else bought it, would Citi be obligated to give you a free used 350Z?
Listen - you can try whatever you want, but I think it's a little whiny to expect $600 because an account was locked for security until the morning. (It's also a little presumptuous to assume that locking the account was somehow Citi's "fault" without knowing the full story from the OP.)
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Why? Because it is unreasonable to expect Citi to provide you with a free item because said item didn't go through on your credit card. If the $27,000 car didn't go through, and someone else bought it, would Citi be obligated to give you a free used 350Z?
no...you are misunderstanding my point....I would have been pissed if the charge did not go thru because that is what an "elite" level customer does....Citi charges me 400/yr and I give them all of my business in return....they make money of my charges....I PIF every month....so they do not make money of the interest accrued, but I give them a helll of a lot of charges every month....approx 60-75 charges evry month on the card -- total spending anywhere between 5-7k
Listen - you can try whatever you want, but I think it's a little whiny to expect $600 because an account was locked for security until the morning. (It's also a little presumptuous to assume that locking the account was somehow Citi's "fault" without knowing the full story from the OP.)
exactly....but if my acct was locked and I was in line to buy something, and the CSR could not do anything right then and there given my history with the company, I would have gone home and put the card thru the shredder....
now, the OP could be late on pmts, not be a good customer -- whatever...in my case, I would have complkained and I gaurantee you I would have gotten something...
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exactly....but if my acct was locked and I was in line to buy something, and the CSR could not do anything right then and there given my history with the company, I would have gone home and put the card thru the shredder....
now, the OP could be late on pmts, not be a good customer -- whatever...in my case, I would have complkained and I gaurantee you I would have gotten something...
I would have gotten something too...at least 5,000 points. That is the standard we are sorry award.
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no...you are misunderstanding my point....I would have been pissed if the charge did not go thru because that is what an "elite" level customer does....Citi charges me 400/yr and I give them all of my business in return....they make money of my charges....I PIF every month....so they do not make money of the interest accrued, but I give them a helll of a lot of charges every month....approx 60-75 charges evry month on the card -- total spending anywhere between 5-7k
[snip]
now, the OP could be late on pmts, not be a good customer -- whatever...in my case, I would have complkained and I gaurantee you I would have gotten something...Ok - two things to clear up here:
A 5-7k/mo PIF customer is not really a good customer from a P&L perspective. :)
Expecting an electronic device that costs $2,000 today as compensation for an "inconvenience" is simply unrealistic. awake_at_midnight's 5k points seems much more reasonable.
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Ok - two things to clear up here:
A 5-7k/mo PIF customer is not really a good customer from a P&L perspective. :)
[COLOR=Red]Actually it is much more than that....once I get my annual spending report, I will let you know....that was as of last yr...and considering that they make an avg 1.5-2% of my charges .... on six figures, that is an excellent customer....good ROI.....unless you calculate differently....and based on FT -- very few Chairman card customers carry a balance...if you carry a balance on a 400/yr card, then that is a negative return for the cardholder...(whole different arguement -- not going to open that can of worms)....
Expecting an electronic device that costs $2,000 today as compensation for an "inconvenience" is simply unrealistic. awake_at_midnight's 5k points seems much more reasonable.
I wanted 10,000pts -- this is the standard sorry for Chairman....hell I got that just for getting pissed about a 1.6 million pt offer for first class tickets which is quite right at $0.01/pt.....you never know what you will get until you ask....
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Actually it is much more than that....once I get my annual spending report, I will let you know....that was as of last yr...and considering that they make an avg 1.5-2% of my charges .... on six figures, that is an excellent customer....good ROI.....unless you calculate differently....and based on FT -- very few Chairman card customers carry a balance...if you carry a balance on a 400/yr card, then that is a negative return for the cardholder...(whole different arguement -- not going to open that can of worms)....Eh. Issuers make their money on interest. They're not so fussy about total spend. When you're talking about owned networks, like Discover and Amex, it's a little different, but, even so, the big metric is balance carried.
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Eh. Issuers make their money on interest. They're not so fussy about total spend. When you're talking about owned networks, like Discover and Amex, it's a little different, but, even so, the big metric is balance carried.
so why would they issue a card that they know that the majority of cardmembers will be PIF's...
I get a card like Chairman because cost vs. value...I use that same reason in everything I do....
Chairman would like to get a client like me because of total spend....I don't care about any other lower level card....
also, Chairman is going directly after PLAT customers (charge card -- PIF ).....as the new card is going directly after CENT customers (again, charge card -- PIF)...
so, now do they care about Total Spend vs. Interest ?????
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Well, I'll give you two things here:
The idea that Citi is "going directly after" Amex markets (if true :))doesn't mean they're necessarily going to use the same business model. In addition, Amex Plat is really *not* PIF at this point. Charges over $100 can be financed.
But, more importantly, as someone who has worked in this business, I can tell you that total spend for an issuer on an open network is not really as significant of a metric as aggregate balance carried and default rate. It wouldn't be unusual to see interchange (transaction) revenue at only a fraction of interest revenue. 1.75% interchange doesn't compare well to 20% interest.
People carry balances - check any credit card company prospectus - you'll see huge receivables for cards with limits over $25k.
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Well, I'll give you two things here:
The idea that Citi is "going directly after" Amex markets (if true :))doesn't mean they're necessarily going to use the same business model. In addition, Amex Plat is really *not* PIF at this point. Charges over $100 can be financed.
But, more importantly, as someone who has worked in this business, I can tell you that total spend for an issuer on an open network is not really as significant of a metric as aggregate balance carried and default rate. It wouldn't be unusual to see interchange (transaction) revenue at only a fraction of interest revenue. 1.75% interchange doesn't compare well to 20% interest.
People carry balances - check any credit card company prospectus - you'll see huge receivables for cards with limits over $25k.
I do agree with you on thing...
People who pay PIF are not the clients that the credit card compnies want....
except the high level cards...such as PLAT, CENT, Chairman, Chairman v2, Merrrill + and so forth...
So, in summary, if you have those cards, service is more important to you than limit since you already more than likely have a high limit...because you charge you a lot.....
so to me....in this case...service was more important thatn the PS3....which the OP did not get and therefore should be compensated....
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I do agree with you on thing...
People who pay PIF are not the clients that the credit card compnies want....
except the high level cards...such as PLAT, CENT, Chairman, Chairman v2, Merrrill + and so forth...
[snip]Heh. You're not going to give that one up, are you? I'll leave you with this fact - superpremium card holders often carry very high balances. Being rich doesn't necessarily mean that you'll always make the right financial decision :). The "best" customers are the good credit risks with massive balances.
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Eh. Issuers make their money on interest. They're not so fussy about total spend. When you're talking about owned networks, like Discover and Amex, it's a little different, but, even so, the big metric is balance carried.
Don't forget the merchant processing fees, that's some income, too.
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The "best" customers are the good credit risks with massive balances.there's an contradiction...
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Don't forget the merchant processing fees, that's some income, too.Yeah - that's another bucket - I'm not sure if Citi owns that kind of business. I think that's even less than interchange, though.
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there's an contradiction...:) You'd think. :)
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so why would they issue a card that they know that the majority of cardmembers will be PIF's...
To attract investment deposits to Smith Barney. The card is a tool to attract and retain high net worth clients.
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Just dump Chairmen card like I did 2 years ago and go with Centurion Card. I called up Centurion Concierge and they got me a PS3. No need to wait in line no need to pay over retail for it. It was shipped to me on Friday 17 and I received it on 11/22/06 via Fed-ex. It came from Sony direct. I was charge $599 + tax and shipping was free. The Charge on online shows up as "Sony-style VIP services".
Citibank CS just cant compare to Amex while I understand I pay $1000 Annual fee for my Centurion card as I am grandfathered because I was original charter member with Chairmen card possible raising their annual fee adding/Cutting befits make Amex look even better. If Amex was able to make an arrangement with Sony I am sure Citibank could have done something similar if they wanted except they just lacked the foresight to think about it.
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Just dump Chairmen card like I did 2 years ago and go with Centurion Card. [...]
Citibank CS just cant compare to Amex while I understand I pay $1000 Annual fee for my Centurion card as I am grandfathered because I was original charter member with Chairmen card possible raising their annual fee adding/Cutting befits make Amex look even better.
I'm not sure what the point of your post is. You say that the Amex Centurion product will "look even better" if the Chairman Card's fees are increased. Yet, as I would assume you know, the Centurion has gone up from $1000 to $2500 yet has consistently dropped benefits. The current speculation is that there will be a new Chairman Card for $1000 with improved benefits, but that the $400 card will remain as it is. Even if that's way off base, whatever Citi is doing is almost certain to improve benefits if the price rises.
So, then, it sounds like you're suggesting the OP get a card that has a solid history of doing exactly what you say as far as making the competition look better! And suggesting that the OP move from a $400 card to a $2500 card due to this one mentioned incident, without taking anything other than that and predicted fee hikes into account.
That said, it is rather outrageous that a major card issuer such as Citi does not have a 24 hour department to resolve this type of problem, especially for their current flagship product. I'm not even sure what type of compensation would be appropriate: I'd like to say that Citi should arrange for the OP to receive a PS3 at a somewhat discounted price and toss in a fair bundle of TY points on top. But it's also not very reasonable to expect a card issuer to arrange that type of apology. Plus one has to consider that Citi didn't actually violate any agreements, as far as I know, by not allowing the OP to make charges, as the issuer has the right to accept and deny charges as they see fit. So I'd say something like a $50 - $100 statement credit and/or a good chunk of TY points would be fair.
If Amex was able to make an arrangement with Sony I am sure Citibank could have done something similar if they wanted except they just lacked the foresight to think about it.
Amex has an existing relationship with the Sony Cierge service for Centurion cardholders. If you indeed got a PS3 via the Centurion concierge, it's almost certain that it'd go through that service. Citi lacked the foresight to think about making an arrangement for one specific popular product? Okay... :rolleyes:
(I'm also making the assumption that you're talking about the Citi Chairman credit card as I'm not quite sure what a "Chairmen [sic] card" is. :))
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I got the Chairman card for free when it was launched for 1 year via Citigroup Private Bank. Yes Citibank has changed the benfits of Chairman card and cut back on benfits just like Amex. I pay $1000 for my Centurion card.Pretty much anyone who got the card prior to 2006 is grandfathered at the $1000 annual. So lets compare apples to apples. The new Chairman more than likely will also have $1000 annual fee. Do you think it will have better benfits? More than likely it wont.
Just to clear things up. I dont hate Citibank. I bank with them. I use either my Amex or Citi AA card exclusively. I just believe Centruion CS and benfits and services are much better than Chairman card.
I canceled the Chairman card because when the renewal came up and Private bank did not want to continue to waive the annual fee for me. I figured Chairman card gives me no extra benfits over my Centurion card so why pay for 2 cards. Plus I never had a problem with Amex in over 20 years while I have had my Citibank AA Private bank Visa card frozen atleast 1-2X a year by Citibank because Citi will suspect some charge I make as being a fraudulant charge.
While I understand the benfits of getting flight points. I personally dont like Chairman or Citibank Thank You points rewards. I dont fly couch nor do I plan to start either. Citibank redemtion values for First Class and Business Class ticket is a joke. And considering Smith Barney Travel and Reward Visa/MC allow 1:1 transfer of points into AA frequent flier program and cost $75 a year only and the Chairman card does not is a joke in itself. This was main reason I refused to pay $400 a year for the Chairman card. Atleast Amex points can be transfered directly to airline programs so you can redem your points at a reasonable value towards first class and business class tickets.
I have a felling many wealth people think same way I do. I run close to $100K a month of business charges via my Amex Centurion(60% via this card), Starwood and Citi AA Visa. I redem between 3-9 first class tickets to Europe a year without any problem. If I used the Chairman card I would be lucky to get 3 tickets a year for free.
The fact Amex had a prior relationship with Sony is irrelevent. If you have a Centurion card and you called prior to launch asking for a PS3 they made all the arangements and the PS3 got shipped directly from Sony to you via Fed-ex overnight for free. I am sure Amex and Sony thought about it and came to some arrangement about PS3 and alloted a certain amount to Amex more than likely. The Fact Citibank offers the PS3 via their Thank You network as an Award means Citibank had some prior relationship with Sony as well or they would not have been allowed units at launch to offer as rewards via their Thank You network either.
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The new Chairman more than likely will also have $1000 annual fee. Do you think it will have better benfits? More than likely it wont.
Yes, I'm fairly convinced that either it will or that I'll be able to keep my current featureset at the current $400 price. Read some of the other threads in this forum speculating about the new card; various people have gotten useful info from Citi about it. The Chairman Card is not a well-known card with an established market like the Amex Centurion, so they can't get away with bumping up the fee and not adding benefits that are worth the higher fee. Amex can and did—in large part due to the Centurion's pop culture status.
I just believe Centruion CS and benfits and services are much better than Chairman card.
Again, you are comparing a $400 card to a $2500 card. Of course this may change if the fee goes up, but the two cards do not have the same target market. The likely $1000 version of the Chairman would be a more reasonable comparison when it's out. The $400 Chairman is a direct competitor of the $300 - $395 Amex Platinum and should be compared to such. There is a good thread comparing the two around here somewhere.
While I understand the benfits of getting flight points. I personally dont like Chairman or Citibank Thank You points rewards. I dont fly couch nor do I plan to start either. Citibank redemtion values for First Class and Business Class ticket is a joke.
I agree with you on this point. 95% of my spending goes on various Amex cards because I like being able to actually transfer to different airlines. I like to spend my miles on international premium cabin travel, and feel traditional FF programs are a better way to go for that. I also don't fly on a couch, though I do often fly coach! :p
Anyways, Citi owns Diners Club, which has plenty of transfer partners, and has a strong relationship with AA, so why can't they make use of those relationships? If the new card offers a way to transfer points to DL I'd upgrade in a heartbeat.
This is all getting rather off topic, but I'd like to point out one thing: the Platinum and Centurion are horrid for MR earning since they're almost never eligible for the double/triple/etc point offers. Since you seem to value rewards quite highly as well, getting a Green or Gold and putting most of your spend on that when a promo's going may be worthwhile to net plenty of bonus MR points!
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In speaking with a manager at Chairman Card CS, I beleive the speculation about a 1k annual fee is inaccurate. While she confirmed we are able to maintain our current card at $400, the new Amex ONLY product will be $2500 and she confirmed airline elite status will be something available.
I for one have both cards and Chairman outshines Amex in every imaginable way. Amex takes customers for granted whereas Chairman continues to serve. The Customer Service is simply 100X better by Chairman and I have already on two occassions been transferred to India when calling in very late for Centurion. When the renewal comes up, bye bye Centurion.
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I think the problem that the OP discussed is that Citi will put a hold on a card without notifying the cardholder. I would think for this level of card, and any card where you are paying an annual fee for that matter, that Citi could call your cell phone and let you know that they have seen potential fraudulent activity on the card BEFORE they put a hold on the card.
This way you don't have Chairman level customers having their card brought back denied at a business dinner "Sorry sir, your card has been denied"
or the loss of a Merry Christmas for the OP's kids :-(
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agree with you here....at least get a hold of the OP is some way or other.....