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What's it going to be? We will all know for sure by 2007 but let’s see if we can get a good idea of the new program before then. I just hope it's not going to be Amex branded Centurion wannabe. All speculation is welcome.
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uh, there are 2 threads at least already.. or are you suggesting the posts discussing the new card be moved here?
centurion wannabe? what the heck are you talking about? this card is DESIGNED to compete with centurion. like citi's ultima card in other countries.
thats what makes its amex branding, if accurate, so interesting. it would suggest a high benefit level, since the "amex alternate" is no longer a viable reason to have the card. it would be competing directly.
if it adds a higher level concierge, instant use of flight points, point transfers, contracted hotel benefits, and maybe airline status, it will absolutely clobber the centurion :D
if not, it will at least be an interesting comparison.
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all I can say is that approx 90% of Chairman cardmembers are extremely happy with this card...so if Citi comes out with one that is worth it such as the Chairman...then I am sure that at least 75%of current cardmembers would switch.....
especially with the fact that Centurion value vs cost is not very appealing...
same thing with the AMEX PLAT .... that is why Chairman killed the PLAT right away...
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I’ve seen the other threads. It seems that speculation has been discouraged in the said threads. My intention was to create a thread where speculation is encouraged. I believe that hearsay evidence can go a long way in getting a good picture of the new [Chairman] program. While I view speculation and hearsay as valuable, I see groundless speculation as having no value. Please post your source along with any "inside" information you would like share. Thanks.
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I’ve seen the other threads. It seems that speculation has been discouraged in the said threads. My intention was to create a thread where speculation is encouraged. I believe that hearsay evidence can go a long way in getting a good picture of the new [Chairman] program. While I view speculation and hearsay as valuable, I see groundless speculation as having no value. Please post your source along with any "inside" information you would like share. Thanks.
I would be the "official discourager of speculation". I will not spoil your fun in this thread :)
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Don't say that Ultima is a great product unless you can post a benefits page for it. All of my research does not turn up a great product full of benefits.
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Also, I think that Ultima was a flop...it was introduced in India last yr with an anuual fee of approx 50,000Rupees....approx 1100 USD...
don't know if it took off...same in SIN and UAE
really have not heard anything after the launch....
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Also, I think that Ultima was a flop...it was introduced in India last yr with an anuual fee of approx 50,000Rupees....approx 1100 USD...
While I love the Chairman Card, I'm not sure why you can say that it "killed" Amex Plat with its fairly low membership (remember, marketing is just as important as perks for a card's success), and then go on to say Ultima was a flop without mentioning more than its fees.
If the Chairman Card totally killed the Amex Plat they wouldn't be revamping the product. :) 50 - 75% of the US population know what an Amex Platinum is. < 1% know what a Citi Chairman card is.
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While I love the Chairman Card, I'm not sure why you can say that it "killed" Amex Plat with its fairly low membership (remember, marketing is just as important as perks for a card's success), and then go on to say Ultima was a flop without mentioning more than its fees.
If the Chairman Card totally killed the Amex Plat they wouldn't be revamping the product. :) 50 - 75% of the US population know what an Amex Platinum is. < 1% know what a Citi Chairman card is.
The Chairman card has not hurt Amex Platinum. :cool:
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Black Amex branded CC=Centurion wannabe. The “Black Amex” started as a rumor and came into fruition upon Amex realizing that they could capitalize urban legend of a black card. The centurion has become a world famous symbol of wealth. As a young associate at one of Americas top law firms, I wanted nothing more than to have a Centurion that I wave around at the end of the night. Shortly after getting the Cent, the joy of feeling like I finally fit in with my Ivey league co workers wore off and I realized that the card simply wasn’t worth the fee. I now have my own firm and charge more than ever. It is important that I have a card that is going to reward me for my frequent airline travel and large amount of annual business expenses. After dumping my Cent, and a year of using Diners, I thought I finally found the card for me, Chairman. Not a rip-off like the Cent but a step up from Diners, the chairman seemed to suit my needs perfectly. My quest for the right card started out of sheer pretentiousness and has ended in a simple cost benefit analysis. Although I am more practical now, I still don’t want to have to go out with a bunch of old associates and have to put my black Amex branded card next to their “real black cards.” It won’t matter how good the new [Chairman] benefits are, if the card is black and has Amex logo on it, the card will forever be seen as noting more than a wannabe to the original.
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Black Amex branded CC=Centurion wannabe. The “Black Amex” started as a rumor and came into fruition upon Amex realizing that they could capitalize urban legend of a black card. The centurion has become a world famous symbol of wealth. As a young associate at one of Americas top law firms, I wanted nothing more than to have a Centurion that I wave around at the end of the night. Shortly after getting the Cent, the joy of feeling like I finally fit in with my Ivey league co workers wore off and I realized that the card simply wasn’t worth the fee. I now have my own firm and charge more than ever. It is important that I have a card that is going to reward me for my frequent airline travel and large amount of annual business expenses. After dumping my Cent, and a year of using Diners, I thought I finally found the card for me, Chairman. Not a rip-off like the Cent but a step up from Diners, the chairman seemed to suit my needs perfectly. My quest for the right card started out of sheer pretentiousness and has ended in a simple cost benefit analysis. Although I am more practical now, I still don’t want to have to go out with a bunch of old associates and have to put my black Amex branded card next to their “real black cards.” It won’t matter how good the new [Chairman] benefits are, if the card is black and has Amex logo on it, the card will forever be seen as noting more than a wannabe to the original.
AMEX AMEX cards will always have stronger branding than MC/Visa/AMEX issued by other banks. AMEX AMEX has one brand. Other cards have 2 or three brands. AMEX has a reputation of only issuing cards (even green cards) to those that have financial resources because they were initially charge cards. Platinum MC and Visa have a reputation for issuing to anyone with or without a pulse...or worse dead with bad credit.
The only MC/Visa that ever catch an eye in my experience are:
Chairman - Sometimes it's the fact that it does not have a logo. Sometimes its because it is mistaken for a Centurion. It's a conversation piece until someone realizes that its not a Centurion. If they research it they will find that anyone can get it...not exclusive at all.
Stratus - Only people that know the card actually pay attention. Yes. It is exclusive. However, the rewards and benefits are not impressive from what I hear.
Merrill+ - It is a really cool looking card and it has "Merrill Lynch" on it. People look twice. This card has actually attracted as much attention from 22 year old waitresses/waiters as my Chairman. Anyone can get this card.
The Bluefish Card - Its not going to impress a 22 yo. It may impress a 40 yo. Again, anyone can get it.
However none of these cards will catch attention like an AMEX Platinum.
I enjoy the benefits and rewards of my Chairman Card greatly, but the fact that it is black makes it an immediate Centurion wanna-be. The same can be said for all of the black cards on the market, i.e. Quantum, Carte Blanche, Merrill Plus, numerous Visa Signatures and World Mastercards. Maybe Citi should have made it red to make it stand out, but frankly they wanted to get the "pull through" on Centurion's mystique. (I really want AMEX to release their "red" card in the US. I think that its very sexy and unique.)
Make no mistake, Chairman and all the other cards like it will always be imitators. However, sometimes the second to market can offer better value to the consumer than the original. The fact that I got the better deal always makes me smile. Why feel bad about having the "smart" choice in luxury plastic.
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stratus is by all accounts dead. there is nothing about them online after their initial press release in 2004, one FTer has said he might have to sue them because of problems, and there was only 1 positive post about them, after which the poster never posted again. also, they advertised having mint lifestyle as a concierge. annual fee for card was $1500, and mint lifestyle starts at $15K a year, and does not allow anyone to join, its very selective, as is preferred group.
bluefish costs $5K/yr (comparable to personal concierge international at $4K) (both of those numbers are the minimum annual fees)
ultima benefits can be ascertained by anyone in UK for example calling citi and asking. unfortunately i have not setup VOIP yet or i would do it myself...
i find it highly improbable that they are able to charge GBP600-750 (i forget which it is) for a card with no benefits or reputation. amex centurion might be said to have no benefits, but it does have a reputation.
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[QUOTE=karthik]While I love the Chairman Card, I'm not sure why you can say that it "killed" Amex Plat with its fairly low membership (remember, marketing is just as important as perks for a card's success), and then go on to say Ultima was a flop without mentioning more than its fees.
The reason I said that Ultima is a flop is because I have many rich suppliers in India and Singapore and many relatives in India and they have not heard of Ultima....they travel a lot and enjoy the fine things in life, but they do not have the card. Again, cannot tell you exactly....but I do not think that Citibank will release the info whether or not it is a flop....will check on it if it is still offered..
Amex Plat is losing customers as they change to Chairman....and if chairman was a huge success (meant to read bigger bottom line for CITIGROUP), do you think that Citibank would come out with a way to make more money -- Chairman V2?
Seriously -- that is why they are doing it...all these yrs everyone thought that AMEX PLAT was an excellent card till chairman came out...and then we realized how we have been getting the shaft with AMEX...
Also, they are not revamping the card, they are coming out with another product and keeping the original chairman...
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just because ultima has no rep or marketing, doesnt mean its bad.
if someone in uk, india, sin, hk, etc could call and ask, itd settle the question once and for all.
im never getting current chairman card. would never consider it. amex plat works for me. probably will get cent in the future. some people get cent just for the reputation.
the NEW $1000 card i am definitely interested in. but if it does not have
1. hotel benefits
2. FFP transfers
3. a more valuable concierge in addition to the current chairman one
im not going to be interested in it either. itd be very disappointing if it has that high a rate and does not offer any of these things.
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just because ultima has no rep or marketing, doesnt mean its bad.
if someone in uk, india, sin, hk, etc could call and ask, itd settle the question once and for all.
im never getting current chairman card. would never consider it. amex plat works for me. probably will get cent in the future. some people get cent just for the reputation.
the NEW $1000 card i am definitely interested in. but if it does not have
1. hotel benefits
2. FFP transfers
3. a more valuable concierge in addition to the current chairman one
im not going to be interested in it either. itd be very disappointing if it has that high a rate and does not offer any of these things.
yet you are willing to pay 2500 for the Centurion....hmmmmm???
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ultima benefits can be ascertained by anyone in UK for example calling citi and asking. unfortunately i have not setup VOIP yet or i would do it myself...
n.
Enough already! I do have a UK phone number. I just called and got the information on the ULTIMA Card. It is nothing but a Chairman card with a higher fee. No extra benefits! No limited availability! No special requirements. Most of the benefits are tied to CitiGold. Take away that and you have a Carte Blanche card. Oh they do have a Marriott hotel stay free for three days,,, catch,, you have to do a timeshare presentation and if you have done one before and your name is in their system, you are charged the full rack rate for those three days.
Officially Citi issued the Chairman Card in the US and changed the name in Asia due to the names conversion into asian and russian and also restrictions. You can't call it Chairman in those countries and get the same response. Also the Ultima name has been used by a sub prime lender in the US for people with bad credit. Not a good stigma to fight.
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Citi Ultima is also an elite credit card. It has an unrivalled acceptance at the best establishments worldwide and is cosseted by dedicated support 24/7 whether at home or abroad.
Special arrangements from booking a private jet, renting a personal island or magnificent chalet in the Alps to top priority reservations in the most exclusive restaurants, personal travel offers and exclusive invitations to private events are just a few of the privileges available to CitiGold customers.
Other privileges offered by Citi Ultima are:
Citi Ultima Concierge;
Access to VIP airport lounges in 45 countries;
Special conditions for accommodation in the most luxurious hotels worldwide;
Insurance and international rescue during trips abroad of up to US$1 million;
Discounts and the help of a personal assistant in shops all around the world.
Rajive Chadha, Country Business Manager, Global Consumer Group, Citibank Russia said: "Citi Ultima delivers what clients want, where they want it and when they want it and CitiGold clients in Russia are the first in Europe to be offered this unique card. It reflects the increasing demand for luxury services here, our commitment to innovation in financial services, and the importance of the Russian banking market to Citibank."
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The Citibank Ultima Card Rewards offers the following benefits with a low 29.93% APR and a S2,000.00 annual fee:
Ultima Conceirge
As an Emirates-Citibank Ultima Cardmember, you will receive 25,000 Skywards Miles, with our compliments, when you receive your Card.
Stay with your family in the luxurious 5-star Marriott’s Village d’lle-de-France Resort, conveniently located near the Disneyland Park, 35 minutes from the bustling metropolis of Paris. This also offers you the opportunity to experience France like never before.
Your Emirates-Citibank Ultima Card Rewards take you beyond the travel experience by enhancing your business and leisure activities with superior benefits and the premium level of service you deserve. As an Emirates-Citibank Ultima Cardmember, you earn two Skywards Miles for every US Dollar spent on your Emirates-Citibank Ultima Card.
Welcome to the world of the Emirates-Citibank Ultima Card.
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DRBOND:
Thank You .... Now we can put the Ultima arguement to bed and let it die..... FINALLY !!!!!
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Exclusive Benefits
Up to HK$150 off on tour1
Flexible interest-free repayment period and more exclusive benefits from Citibank Visa/MasterCard
20% discount on travel insurance package
Special price on delivery of air ticket2
Special rate for shuttle bus pick-up service to airport
10% rental discount on 20-seat van
Discounted rate for Mercedes Benz airport transfer
10% rental discount on Mercedes Benz
10% discount on cross-border coach to China3
10% rental discount on cruiser
Special rates for local one-day tour
Remarks:
1 HK$100 discount on tour to Southeast Asia and long haul to China; HK$150 discount on tour to Europe, USA and Australia. Discount is not applicable at high season, route to Guangdong and designated tour.
2 Limits to designated districts
3 This offer is not applicable to route to Guangzhou, return ticket and designated date.
Annual Fee HK$2500
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Citibank India just told me they discontinued the Ultima due to lack of interest and poor membership numbers. (these mean the same I think)
Hong Kong is replacing their card with a card similar to the US Premier Pass.
So about $3.75 in phone calls and the mystery of this bogus piece of crap is over. It is NOT special, our cards already offer more benefits.
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i would be open to paying more than $2500/yr if CTS shows me confirmed hotel upgrades worth that much.
i am NOT currently in the market for a centurion though, and do not spend $250K/yr. (i guess ill be clearer, if there was no spending requirement i would probably get it right now)
thank you very much for the information drbond.
forgive me for "bogus crap" and sorry you paid $3.75.
that makes me think the new $1000 card in USA is going to be worthless to me personally. very disappointing, but oh well.
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i would be open to paying more than $2500/yr if CTS shows me confirmed hotel upgrades worth that much.
i am NOT currently in the market for a centurion though, and do not spend $250K/yr. (i guess ill be clearer, if there was no spending requirement i would probably get it right now)
thank you very much for the information drbond.
forgive me for "bogus crap" and sorry you paid $3.75.
that makes me think the new $1000 card in USA is going to be worthless to me personally. very disappointing, but oh well.
well...I guess Ultima turned out to be a wash....
BTW....you do know that the person responsible for starting the PLAT/CENT program is the same person who is in charge of bringing Chairman/Chairman v2...right?
He left AMEX and got hired by Citigroup....Maybe he is pissed off at Amex and is now trying to get back at them....look at all the benefits that Chairman offers...
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BTW....you do know that the person responsible for starting the PLAT/CENT program is the same person who is in charge of bringing Chairman/Chairman v2...right?
I had not heard that and find it very interesting. Where did you find this tidbit of info?
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I had not heard that and find it very interesting. Where did you find this tidbit of info?
I'll back that one up as well. I read this in a news article, but I'm failing to find it anywhere at the moment.
I don't think he was really PISSED at Amex, just trying to make a better card product... :)
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as i look at amex plat and cent as worth it solely for hotel benefits, i look at chairman as worth it solely for concierge. personally i plan on spending a lot more for higher end concierge services. so there is nothing particularly attractive about chairman to me personally.
i would recommend chairman to anyone who wants a decent concierge service for a VERY reasonable price. or someone who wants a priority pass, chairman is cheaper than buying direct.
so while it certainly has certain things, i will never get one.
im surprised the same person is working with citi, and has not implemented hotel benefits...
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as i look at amex plat and cent as worth it solely for hotel benefits, i look at chairman as worth it solely for concierge. personally i plan on spending a lot more for higher end concierge services. so there is nothing particularly attractive about chairman to me personally.
i would recommend chairman to anyone who wants a decent concierge service for a VERY reasonable price. or someone who wants a priority pass, chairman is cheaper than buying direct.
so while it certainly has certain things, i will never get one.
im surprised the same person is working with citi, and has not implemented hotel benefits...
Again a post in error, unfortunately the facts are that the Chairman is $400.00 and the Priority Pass is only $99.00 / $249.00 / $399.00 so even the highest PP direct is still cheaper.
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What do you guys think a good look for the "V2" would be? I would like to see something in rubber or maybe even carbon fiber. They should definatly keep the the Chairman name as well as the sharp face.
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sorry drbond, but youre clearly wrong there.
chairman allows 2 guests free, citi pays the fee.
so, forgive me, for 1 person it would be $1 cheaper, but if you have a SINGLE guest a SINGLE time, chairman card is cheaper.
also note i never said ultima HAD __ benefits, i said LOGICALLY it should. it boggles my mind how they can charge 600-700 pounds for a card with no real benefits or reputation.
so while my assumption based on logic was incorrect, i did not make factually inaccurate statements.
i have certainly done so regarding other things, no matter how much i learn i feel like im getting nowhere :D
i thank dennis (mia) for usually correcting/clarifying when i say something wrong in here :)
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im surprised the same person is working with citi, and has not implemented hotel benefits...
Well, there is HH Gold...not that it's really worth much since they give it away for free easily enough. Still, it is a hotel benefit. :)
...and I fall into the category of having the Chairman Card solely for the concierge and Priority Pass.
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right, hilton gold status is worth a lot more than mid tier in other chains. and lots of FTers seem to maintain status there in addition to other chains. having gold would let them not have to worry about making it each year.
but for me personally, starwood's properties are much more attractive.
what i meant was contracted rates. amex has 1 for US cardholders, 2 for foreign cardholders, and an additional one for centurion holders.
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a good look for the "V2" would be?.
I think Citi should allow the cardholder to choose any Citi reward card (e.g. Hilton HHonors, American AAdvantage, Diners Club Rewards or Thank You points). Simply add a discreet Chairman script on the face, incorporate the Priority Pass membership number to eliminate the separate card, and list Chairman customer service, concierge and Virtuoso (if appropriate) telephone numbers on the back.
Chairman should be a package of enhanced benefits and rewards, but not a separate card because the appearance of the card doesn't add value.
dennis
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[QUOTE=Kagehitokiri]sorry drbond, but youre clearly wrong there.
chairman allows 2 guests free, citi pays the fee.
so, forgive me, for 1 person it would be $1 cheaper, but if you have a SINGLE guest a SINGLE time, chairman card is cheaper.
QUOTE]
Pay as you go membership = 99
2 guests one time = 48
Total =147
vs Chairman =400
difference =253 saved over chairman
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I think Citi should allow the cardholder to choose any Citi reward card (e.g. Hilton HHonors, American AAdvantage, Diners Club Rewards or Thank You points). Simply add a discreet Chairman script on the face, incorporate the Priority Pass membership number to eliminate the separate card, and list Chairman customer service, concierge and Virtuoso (if appropriate) telephone numbers on the back.
Chairman should be a package of enhanced benefits and rewards, but not a separate card because the appearance of the card doesn't add value.
dennis
The new v2 chairman program is going to have an annual fee of over 1K. I would hope that such an expensive program would have a level of superior benefits that it will render any of the above motioned rewards programs a useless tag-along. Ideally I would like to see the best benefits of each of their rewards programs wrapped up with a cherry on top, and boxed in a sleek sexy package. What should that package look like?
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Again a post in error, unfortunately the facts are that the Chairman is $400.00 and the Priority Pass is only $99.00 / $249.00 / $399.00 so even the highest PP direct is still cheaper.
The $399.00 version of Priority Pass only allows admission for the Card holder. The Priority Pass version available with Chairman allows admission of the Card holder and two companions. Chairman still beats the direct version of priority pass.
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hope that such an expensive program would have a level of superior benefits that it will render any of the above motioned rewards programs a useless tag-along.
Better benefits? Yes. Better rewards? Unlikely, because it runs counter to the trend to reduce rewards to control costs. In my view benefits are funded by the annual fees and by the relationship with Smith Barney, while rewards are funded by merchant fees and are directly related to charge volume.
In any event there is no need for a physically distinct card to give Chairman members a superior product. The system can easily award more points or miles per dollar or grant access to different redemption schedule.
dennis
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Better benefits? Yes. Better rewards? Unlikely, because it runs counter to the trend to reduce rewards to control costs. In my view benefits are funded by the annual fees and by the relationship with Smith Barney, while rewards are funded by merchant fees and are directly related to charge volume.
In any event there is no need for a physically distinct card to give Chairman members a superior product. The system can easily award more points or miles per dollar or grant access to different redemption schedule.
dennis
I hope your wrong about the V2 not having a better rewards program. By all accounts the v2 is going to be harder to get and have a much higher annual fee. More exclusive card = a more merchant fees and a higher charge volume. Such a program would definitely warrant a more generous rewards program
"A physically distinct card" is essential in attracting "young money." Having young jet setters carrying the v2 is a sure fire way to get the card known. A special phone number on the back of an existing card is not a good way to market the new program. An elite card must have an elite look.
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on the physical aspect, the new much higher fees have got to be part of why amex can now make them out of titanium in some countries. so you dont want anything like that :P
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The $399.00 version of Priority Pass only allows admission for the Card holder. The Priority Pass version available with Chairman allows admission of the Card holder and two companions. Chairman still beats the direct version of priority pass.
The example given was a guest one time:
"so, forgive me, for 1 person it would be $1 cheaper, but if you have a SINGLE guest a SINGLE time, chairman card is cheaper."
The answer to that was $99.00 plus $24.00 is $123.00 which is cheaper. Actually 4 visits in a year with two guests each time is still cheaper or 6 visits with a guest each time is still cheaper. My point was that it is only cheaper under certain circumstances. Depending on the number of visits and how many guests each time, Chairman may or may not be cheaper. If you travel solo, Chairman is a dollar higher with more benefits, so it is worth it. I do have a Chairman and do believe it is worth it for the benefits. I think you can probably get around the number of guests without being charged by escorting in some guests, have them stay, go out after a period of time and escort in some other guests.
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The example given was a guest one time:
"so, forgive me, for 1 person it would be $1 cheaper, but if you have a SINGLE guest a SINGLE time, chairman card is cheaper."
The answer to that was $99.00 plus $24.00 is $123.00 which is cheaper.
You're forgetting that you have to pay for your OWN visit on the $99 membership. So one visit with one guest is $147. 4 visits with 2 guests costs just slightly less than a Chairman Card. (Anyways, who gets a Priority Pass who isn't travelling at least monthly anyways? In that case the $249 mid-tier Priority Pass with 10 free visits may or may not be a good option.)
I think you can probably get around the number of guests without being charged by escorting in some guests, have them stay, go out after a period of time and escort in some other guests.
I tried this at one of the ServisAir GlobeGround lounges in AMS. Was meeting a couple friends who arrived well after me. The lounge attendant tried to re-run my Priority Pass but it wouldn't go through; I guess the thing to do would have been to tell her that I was having 2 guests when I initially entered. Went over to the nearby Menzies lounge instead since I hadn't been there yet. No problems with the Priority Pass there.
Not sure if this is a general Priority Pass thing or is potentially lounge-specific...
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as i look at amex plat and cent as worth it solely for hotel benefits, i look at chairman as worth it solely for concierge. personally i plan on spending a lot more for higher end concierge services. so there is nothing particularly attractive about chairman to me personally.
i would recommend chairman to anyone who wants a decent concierge service for a VERY reasonable price. or someone who wants a priority pass, chairman is cheaper than buying direct.
so while it certainly has certain things, i will never get one.
im surprised the same person is working with citi, and has not implemented hotel benefits...
What sort of concierge service are you looking for. I am extremely pleased with the Chaiman Concierge service and have found that they will do almost anything for you. What won't they do that you can find elsewhere?
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What sort of concierge service are you looking for. I am extremely pleased with the Chaiman Concierge service and have found that they will do almost anything for you. What won't they do that you can find elsewhere?http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=606096
its not a matter of "won't" its a matter of "can't"
i recognize they are wonderful PAs.
im personally willing to pay more for access, discounts, and hotel benefits.
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I noticed today that the mailing address for sending a letter has changed from a Kentucky address to the following:
Citigroup Chairman Customer Service
PO Box 45042
Jacksonville, FL 32232-5042
Does this mean anything to anyone or provide any clue about where Citi is going with the new Chairman product?
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I hope your wrong about the V2 not having a better rewards program. By all accounts the v2 is going to be harder to get and have a much higher annual fee. More exclusive card = a more merchant fees and a higher charge volume. Such a program would definitely warrant a more generous rewards program
"A physically distinct card" is essential in attracting "young money." Having young jet setters carrying the v2 is a sure fire way to get the card known. A special phone number on the back of an existing card is not a good way to market the new program. An elite card must have an elite look.
I seriously doubt that Citi will make the rewards program better. Every change that they have made to Credit cards recently has been to reduce rewards and benefits. Cases in point are:
1. Citi Dividend Card - Reduced from 5% to 2% cash back on everyday spending
2. Diners Club - Reduced benefits, etc.
3. Thank You Program - Discoverd that $50 gift cards went up from 50,000 points to 60,000 points
The current Chairman program has the most generous rewards of any card that I know of. Further, if you look at the AMEX model, AMEX Platinum actually accumulates points more slowly than AMEX Preferred Rewards Gold. (Actually, the rewards value of at least 4 AMEX cards is greater than AMEX Platinum: AMEX Starwood, AMEX HHonors, AMEX Delta, AMEX Rewards Gold.) Chairman earns greater rewards than both cards. I doubt that an improvement for the consumer is in order.
On the appearance, I agree that for branding the appearance is important and in some professions signs of success are important.
However in my line of work, I am frequently more highly compensated than my customers, etc. Blatant displays of wealth are not appropriate. Since there are no benefits that require physically showing a Chairman Card, it would be nice to have the option of using something with less "bling". A platinum card with Chairman benefits would be perfect for me.
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I seriously doubt that Citi will make the rewards program better. Every change that they have made to Credit cards recently has been to reduce rewards and benefits. Cases in point are:
1. Citi Dividend Card - Reduced from 5% to 2% cash back on everyday spending
2. Diners Club - Reduced benefits, etc.
3. Thank You Program - Discoverd that $50 gift cards went up from 50,000 points to 60,000 points
The current Chairman program has the most generous rewards of any card that I know of. Further, if you look at the AMEX model, AMEX Platinum actually accumulates points more slowly than AMEX Preferred Rewards Gold. (Actually, the rewards value of at least 4 AMEX cards is greater than AMEX Platinum: AMEX Starwood, AMEX HHonors, AMEX Delta, AMEX Rewards Gold.) Chairman earns greater rewards than both cards. I doubt that an improvement for the consumer is in order.
On the appearance, I agree that for branding the appearance is important and in some professions signs of success are important.
However in my line of work, I am frequently more highly compensated than my customers, etc. Blatant displays of wealth are not appropriate. Since there are no benefits that require physically showing a Chairman Card, it would be nice to have the option of using something with less "bling". A platinum card with Chairman benefits would be perfect for me.
Are you willing to pay 1k+ for a reduction in rewards?
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I noticed today that the mailing address for sending a letter has changed from a Kentucky address to the following:
Citigroup Chairman Customer Service
PO Box 45042
Jacksonville, FL 32232-5042
Does this mean anything to anyone or provide any clue about where Citi is going with the new Chairman product?
I got a letter in the mail for customer service still addressed to Souh Dakota...
this was after I consolidated my AAdvantage card into the chairman....
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Are you willing to pay 1k+ for a reduction in rewards?
I will keep the card, if the value is greater than the annual fee. Value is defined to me as:
The value of benefits that I would otherwise pay for
The value of rewards
For the current card its:
$ 250 - The price I would pay for an airline club membership with my primary airline
$ 800 - The value of the rewards that I have earned in 1 year (at $0.01 / pt)
$1050 - Total
The answer today would be "Yes". The answer "tomorrow" will depend on the benefits and how much my spending is. I like Citibank, but I get nearly same level of benefits with:
PP Elite (free w/ Citigold) - between 2-4 TY points per $
Fidelity AMEX Platinum $320/yr
or
PP Elite
Merrill+ (w/ $50k annual spending you get premium concierge service, status matching on AA, and a real Delta Club membership)
If the price went beyond $1000 without additional benefits, I would chose one of the above options.
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I will keep the card, if the value is greater than the annual fee. Value is defined to me as:
The value of benefits that I would otherwise pay for
The value of rewards
For the current card its:
$ 250 - The price I would pay for an airline club membership with my primary airline
$ 800 - The value of the rewards that I have earned in 1 year (at $0.01 / pt)
$1050 - Total
The answer today would be "Yes". The answer "tomorrow" will depend on the benefits and how much my spending is. I like Citibank, but I get nearly same level of benefits with:
PP Elite (free w/ Citigold) - between 2-4 TY points per $
Fidelity AMEX Platinum $320/yr
or
PP Elite
Merrill+ (w/ $50k annual spending you get premium concierge service, status matching on AA, and a real Delta Club membership)
If the price went beyond $1000 without additional benefits, I would chose one of the above options.
I am sure that there will be additonal benefits....we are really specualting as to what will be given...
But I think that the original Chairman was a beta test to see if Citigroup could attract this type of client....the high spending AMEX clients...
Now that Citigroup has revcd postive feedback, now they will go after the top dog -- Centurion....
Also, I aams ure that since Citi "READS" these forums, they have read about the lack of benefits on Centurion, they would not fall into the same trap....
I would prefer a "Plastic" card with good benefits than "Titanium" with no benefits and an urban legend...
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centurion has FHR + confirmed upgrades and doubled $$ credits , and a reputation.
while i think there has to be SOME kind of increase for new citi card, considering that the ultima card is basically worthless (no benefits no reputation) (thanks drbond for looking into it) im not as hopeful and optimistic as i was about this new card.
especially since citi charges GBP500 in UK for the ultima card, vs GBP650 for centurion.
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centurion has FHR + confirmed upgrades and doubled $$ credits , and a reputation.
while i think there has to be SOME kind of increase for new citi card, considering that the ultima card is basically worthless (no benefits no reputation) (thanks drbond for looking into it) im not as hopeful and optimistic as i was about this new card.
especially since citi charges GBP500 in UK for the ultima card, vs GBP650 for centurion.
But I have quick question for you....Since you are so GA GA over Centurion..
Do you have one? Can you get one? (2 questions...sorry)
If the answer is NO to both questions, then why would you not get a card that does basically the same thing, just does not come with an urban legend attached to it...
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if i could get a centurion right now i probably would. (if benefits were good for my next big trip, 100% sure i would) but i cant. its not an option. i dont spend $250K a year.
denying that fine hotels and resorts is a benefit, denying that airline status is a benefit, and denying that the additional credits and confirmed upgrades within fine hotels and resorts and cruise privilege partner program are benefits is a lie.
you can say YOU dont see the value of having them but saying they DO NOT EXIST is an outright lie.
im really getting tired of ad hominem attacks when were not even talking politics.
I PERSONALLY dont have any reason to get chairman card. i WAS excited about new one, because i thought i would have a reason to get it. i RECOGNIZE that the current chairman card has a LOT of great benefits useful to many people.
it would be really nice if people were clearer about personal opinions and values vs FACTS.
edit - also whenever i mentioned ultima card, i was clear that i did not know the benefits, but thought that logically if the fee for it was similar to centurion, then it must have somewhat similar benefits. clearly i was wrong, but i never stated that it had x or y benefits.
i apologize when i get my facts wrong, and for possibly being overly critical of TYN. but karthik i believe is another person who has discussed why he values MR over TYN in the past.
edit - moreover, i feel like an idiot for not going for a centurion when the spending requirement was $100K, i probably could made it, which is another reason i would have jumped on the new $1000 citi card even if it was just for added hotel benefits, plus the current benefits, and they didnt change the rewards at all.
edit - also thought id add, because people have taken it the wrong way in the past, when i use capitalization, its for emphasis, not like BLAH BLAH BLAH commonly used to represent shouting online. i apologize if anyone misinterpreted and was offended.
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if i could get a centurion right now i probably would. (if benefits were good for my next big trip, 100% sure i would) but i cant. its not an option. i dont spend $250K a year.
denying that fine hotels and resorts is a benefit, denying that airline status is a benefit, and denying that the additional credits and confirmed upgrades within fine hotels and resorts and cruise privilege partner program are benefits is a lie.
you can say YOU dont see the value of having them but saying they DO NOT EXIST is an outright lie.
im really getting tired of ad hominem attacks when were not even talking politics.
I PERSONALLY dont have any reason to get chairman card. i WAS excited about new one, because i thought i would have a reason to get it. i RECOGNIZE that the current chairman card has a LOT of great benefits useful to many people.
it would be really nice if people were clearer about personal opinions and values vs FACTS.
edit - also whenever i mentioned ultima card, i was clear that i did not know the benefits, but thought that logically if the fee for it was similar to centurion, then it must have somewhat similar benefits. clearly i was wrong, but i never stated that it had x or y benefits.
i apologize when i get my facts wrong, and for possibly being overly critical of TYN. but karthik i believe is another person who has discussed why he values MR over TYN in the past.
edit - moreover, i feel like an idiot for not going for a centurion when the spending requirement was $100K, i probably could made it, which is another reason i would have jumped on the new $1000 citi card even if it was just for added hotel benefits, plus the current benefits, and they didnt change the rewards at all.
edit - also thought id add, because people have taken it the wrong way in the past, when i use capitalization, its for emphasis, not like BLAH BLAH BLAH commonly used to represent shouting online. i apologize if anyone misinterpreted and was offended.
First, I never denied any of the benefits offered by Centurion...I have just said that the benefits have been reduced and for 2500/yr...it is worthless unless you stay at a FHR everytime or you vacation at least 3 times a yr which most people cannot afford to do...
Second, you are comparing a card that exists to one that does not exist yet....so how would you know what the benefits are? How can you say that you would not get it?
Third, you started the Ultima thing and one FT'er went out and got the benefits and you were corrected....but IMHO -- I usually do my reasearch before I come out strong on an issue....
I have nothing against you, but you are not really keeping an open mind....
I used to have an AMEX PLAT -- with MR -- and I switched to a Chairman because the benefits easliy outweigh the AMEX...
True, you can get free breakfast with FHR thru PLAT -- but if you never wake up for breakfast...then it is a worthless benefit right...and when I am on vacation...I am really on vacation...no timetable....
No reason to get all willy nilly....
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First, I never denied any of the benefits offered by Centurion...I have just said that the benefits have been reduced and for 2500/yr...it is worthless unless you stay at a FHR everytime or you vacation at least 3 times a yr which most people cannot afford to do... i have said many times i have plat because i think its worth the additional cost over green for FHR. people can disagree on the value, but your last comment i interpreted as a suggestion that there were no benefits..
Second, you are comparing a card that exists to one that does not exist yet....so how would you know what the benefits are? How can you say that you would not get it? based on the ultima card having no real benefits and no real reputation, do you think that the new citi card in the US will be very different? logic doesnt seem to suggest that, but i would love to be wrong about that.
Third, you started the Ultima thing and one FT'er went out and got the benefits and you were corrected....but IMHO -- I usually do my reasearch before I come out strong on an issue.... i read everything on FT, read everything that resulted from google search. short of calling a foreign citi, there was nothing more i could do, which i was pretty clear about. i know some FTers have them, but i couldnt find any. i know ive seen them in the programs for some posters, but they must post mostly in the airline forums, no idea where/when i saw it.
I have nothing against you, but you are not really keeping an open mind.... as i said, logically it does not seem that citi is going to increase benefits that much, based on benefits/cost of ultima. also note there are others like awake_at_midnight who are are slightly more cynical than i am regarding customer benefits vs company profits.
I used to have an AMEX PLAT -- with MR -- and I switched to a Chairman because the benefits easliy outweigh the AMEX... great, i personally disagree. im happy you are getting more benefits.
True, you can get free breakfast with FHR thru PLAT -- but if you never wake up for breakfast...then it is a worthless benefit right...and when I am on vacation...I am really on vacation...no timetable.... exactly. different people value different things.
No reason to get all willy nilly.... considering all the comments about me "hyping" amex and "trashing" citi, when ive only "trashed" TYN and "hyped" the new citi card and ultima, i was getting a little frustrated.
bottom line, im sorry if i overreacted, but considering your remark (if it was meant sarcastically) was accompanied by what i consider blatant disregard to the existence of centurion benefits, i did not see it as sarcastic/facetious.
again, id personally like to see hotel benefits, new additional concierge, and improved rewards for the new chairman card. i would be willing to pay $1000 solely for hotel benefits depending of course on what they are.
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again, id personally like to see hotel benefits, new additional concierge, and improved rewards for the new chairman card. i would be willing to pay $1000 solely for hotel benefits depending of course on what they are.[/QUOTE]
So instead of saying that it is worth nothing to you....lets wait and see...hell even I won't pay $1000 if I do not see the benefits increased and/or rewards increase...
but I will wait and see before I make up my mind...
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i havent made up my mind. but after learning ultima < chairman, and ultima has no real benefits, besides insurance products, i would say logically it appears more likely that awake_at_midnight and others are correct that there will be a price increase with not much of a benefit increase.
so while i will certainly jump on the card if it does turn out well, im not as optimistic as i was initially.
also perhaps you can clarify, when people say they are earning 2-4 points per dollar with chairman, thats referring to the combination of flight points as you earn 1 per dollar usually, and 2 per dollar in the program like amex's old everyday spending? (1+1=2 2+2=4)
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i havent made up my mind. but after learning ultima < chairman, and ultima has no real benefits, besides insurance products, i would say logically it appears more likely that awake_at_midnight and others are correct that there will be a price increase with not much of a benefit increase.
so while i will certainly jump on the card if it does turn out well, im not as optimistic as i was initially.
also perhaps you can clarify, when people say they are earning 2-4 points per dollar with chairman, thats referring to the combination of flight points as you earn 1 per dollar usually, and 2 per dollar in the program like amex's old everyday spending? (1+1=2 2+2=4)
It's actually 2 or 6 points per $ (versus 2 or 4 points per dollor on Premier Pass Elite). Its a strange program, but here's how it works:
1. Always book your tickets on your Chairman Card. You will earn 1 flight point per $ spent. If you travel alot assume that you will earn infinite flight points. However these do NOT automatically transfer to your ThankYou account.
2. Whenever you spend at gas/grocery/drug stores you will earn Thank You points as follows:
1 purchase point per $
2 select spend points per $ (i.e. an additional 2 points for gas/grocery/drug)
3 flight points per $ (each of the above points gets matched by a flight pt)
6 total points per $ get deposited in your ThankYou account at month end
3. Whenever you spend at other stores you will earn Thank You points as follows:
1 purchase point per $
1 flight point per $ (each of the above points gets matched by a flight pt)
2 total points per $ get deposited in your ThankYou account at month end
4. Effectively, if you fly alot you can earn 2 or 6 points per $ spent.
5. The value of these points is typical of other programs. A low-end valuation can be achieved by considering that 10,000 points = $100 gift card. Therefore, you earn: 2 cents per $ or 6 cents per $. If you assume that domestic and international travel are worth more, the valuation is higher. This makes Chairman one of the best rewards programs (in terms of points accrual). The only missing elements are point transfers to other loyalty programs.
6. If you purchase goods through the ThankYou Merchant website you can actually earn more points per dollar. The site includes common merchants such as Buy.com, Sharper Image, etc. The prices are the same. Full inventory is available. You can earn 3, 4, 5, 6 points per $ depending on the merchant.
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i havent made up my mind. but after learning ultima < chairman, and ultima has no real benefits, besides insurance products, i would say logically it appears more likely that awake_at_midnight and others are correct that there will be a price increase with not much of a benefit increase.
so while i will certainly jump on the card if it does turn out well, im not as optimistic as i was initially.
also perhaps you can clarify, when people say they are earning 2-4 points per dollar with chairman, thats referring to the combination of flight points as you earn 1 per dollar usually, and 2 per dollar in the program like amex's old everyday spending? (1+1=2 2+2=4)
I earn in the following manner:
Everyday purchases (supermarkets, gas stations, drugstores) $1 spent = 3 purchase points to which you can add 3 flight point = 6 pts/ $ spent
Other purchase -- $1 = 1 purchase point + 1 flight point = 2pts / $ spent
TY Merchant points -- Depends on the merchant -- lets take my example of the TV I bought from Crutchfield.com:
TV Cost -- $800 (round it out to keep calculations simple)
Purchase point earned - 800
TY Merchant Bonus (7pts per $) -- 5600pts (Select Spend point)
Flight points transferred - 6400
Total points earned on this transaction -12800 -- comes out to 16pts per $ spent...
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so you get 3 for select spend which makes it 6.
or 2 usually.
(i dont really look at online merchant bonuses personally)
plus many on FT get citibank points every month.
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Now to expand on the point earning lesson.... :)
(words in Caps are not yelling at you)
Mr. K had said in an earlier post that 165,000pts for a Biz class ticket is too many points...
I disagree....I just got a ticket on JL biz class using AA miles to HKG -- 110,000miles...
now to India is is 135,000 using AAmiles for a J class ticket IF AVAILABLE...if not, then you have to use AAANytime for 150,000miles...Can you earn FF miles with this -- NO...Can you upgrade to F ...NO
TY Points ... 165,00pts...on airline of your choice...and since they buy the ticket for you in C/J class...you earn the miles in the FFP AND it is upgradable with MILES....
plus you do not have to spend 165,000 to get 165,000miles...
If you only do the EVERYDAY PURCHASES with FLIGHT POINTS -- you only need to spend $27500 (6pts per $) -- or take my post earlier in which I earned 12800pts for an $800 purchase and I only need an addtional $21,166 in EVERYDAY PURCHASES...
Now with SPG AMEX, you would need 101,250 Starpoints to get the biz class ticket on AA for 135,000miles...which means approx 101,000 in spending...do not know if SPG offers double points and/or promotions, but lets us take it at face value and it does not offer bonus pts for everyday purchases...
Let's see spending $21166 and having the ability to earn FFmiles and be able to upgrade to F with that airlines miles....
or spending $101,000 with SPG AMEX because you have the ability to TRANSFER points to miles and nto earn any FFmiles or have a chance to upgared to F....
No brainer as I see it....CHAIRMAN WINS !!!!
Now I am sure someone will post the annual fee difference...you get Priority Pass with Chairman and SPG AMEX, you get didly squat...
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There is a lot of interesting debate based on what the chairman card might be. Here is what I suggest.
Someone utilize a chairman concierge to compile all the data they can get (rumors, innuendo, speaking with Citicards officers, or whoever) and have them email the results. Post the results here, and we will have the most definitive yet summary of benefits to come.. Make sense?
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i was wrong on what i thought business to india would cost with miles. its more expensive than i thought.
interesting comparison >
AC = ?
AC *A = 185K
NH AC = 100K
NH UA = 110K
NH *A = 120K
those are the current *A partners for MR. didnt look at skyteam or others and there are no oneworld partners right now.
so you could compare those, and the figure anaggie gave for AA to the TYN. (and his additional comparisons obviously)
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i was wrong on what i thought business to india would cost with miles. its more expensive than i thought.
interesting comparison >
AC = ?
AC *A = 185K
NH AC = 100K
NH UA = 110K
NH *A = 120K
those are the current *A partners for MR. didnt look at skyteam or others and there are no oneworld partners right now.
so you could compare those, and the figure anaggie gave for AA to the TYN. (and his additional comparisons obviously)
So again, the Chairman card does make a lot of sense in this comparison....
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it certainly is not inflated like i thought.
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it certainly is not inflated like i thought.
If you are earning 2-6 points per $ spent all of the rewards in ThankYou are more than reasonable. I cannot find anything better.
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i was wrong on what i thought business to india would cost with miles. its more expensive than i thought.
interesting comparison >
AC = ?
AC *A = 185K
NH AC = 100K
NH UA = 110K
NH *A = 120K
those are the current *A partners for MR. didnt look at skyteam or others and there are no oneworld partners right now.
so you could compare those, and the figure anaggie gave for AA to the TYN. (and his additional comparisons obviously)
Pls see post#59...I edited it to show the point difference between Chairman and supposedly the best Frequent flyer card out -- SPG AMEX...
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Since this is the speculation thread...
Wouldn't it be nice for Citi to add SPG Plat status to the new Chairman card?
They could easily use the larger annual fee to pay the $500 SPG wanted from Amex to keep it as a Centurion benefit.
I would pay that and so would lots of current Centurion cardholders.
Obvious problem is that Amex probably has some exclusivity clause with SPG already in place.
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Since this is the speculation thread...
Wouldn't it be nice for Citi to add SPG Plat status to the new Chairman card?
They could easily use the larger annual fee to pay the $500 SPG wanted from Amex to keep it as a Centurion benefit.
I would pay that and so would lots of current Centurion cardholders.
Obvious problem is that Amex probably has some exclusivity clause with SPG already in place.
Great idea. I would pay that also. That would be excellent. It is one of the big reasons that I haven't jumped over to Centurion - that they got rid of the SPG Plat.
- SR
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Great idea. I would pay that also. That would be excellent. It is one of the big reasons that I haven't jumped over to Centurion - that they got rid of the SPG Plat.
- SR
Never know...now that Citi does have AMEX branded cards.....we might get what you wish for...
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Wouldn't it be nice for Citi to add SPG Plat status to the new Chairman card?
They could easily use the larger annual fee to pay the $500 SPG wanted from Amex to keep it as a Centurion benefit.
I would pay that and so would lots of current Centurion cardholders.
It would be nice—but since the card is rumored to be in the $1k range that'd be completely infeasible. Now, if this was an a la carte option, that would be great. Depending on my travel patterns, if I could decide whether or not to pay $500 extra in a given year I'd be quite happy with that.
We're much more likely to see SPG Gold of course... It might be nice to see mid-tier with Marriott or Hyatt instead since those seem to be given out as freebies less than HH/SPG Gold are.
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It would be nice—but since the card is rumored to be in the $1k range that'd be completely infeasible. Now, if this was an a la carte option, that would be great. Depending on my travel patterns, if I could decide whether or not to pay $500 extra in a given year I'd be quite happy with that.
We're much more likely to see SPG Gold of course... It might be nice to see mid-tier with Marriott or Hyatt instead since those seem to be given out as freebies less than HH/SPG Gold are.
For some reason SPG always comps me to SPG Gold. Probably because I am HH Diamond, I never stay at SPG, and they have nothing to lose because I never stay at SPG (well almost never). The bottom line is SPG Gold does not seem that valuable, i.e. I would not pay more money for it.
...status (or status match) on AA would be nice and complimentary HH Diamond status (even with a certain spending threshold). That would fit well with the Citi partnerships.
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For some reason SPG always comps me to SPG Gold. Probably because I am HH Diamond, I never stay at SPG, and they have nothing to lose because I never stay at SPG (well almost never). The bottom line is SPG Gold does not seem that valuable, i.e. I would not pay more money for it.
...status (or status match) on AA would be nice and complimentary HH Diamond status (even with a certain spending threshold). That would fit well with the Citi partnerships.
That is what I am hoping for...do not care about HH Status since I hardly stay at them....at nightime when I go to bed all hotel rooms look the same to me... :cool:
But if they gave me AA PLAT with the ability to transfer points to miles with AA -- and they do not reduce my point earning capability along with the same Chairman benefits -- count me in...
I have been An AA PLAT for the first time in my life and it is so much better to cruise staright to the front, get my upgrades....but after this yr, I will fall back to Gold...
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Any new info? :cool:
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Any new info? :cool:
nothing...all speculation...but nthey are not realeasing anything new till 1Q 07....
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seems weird that they would stop taking new applications for that long.
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not really....I assume that they wanted a cutoff date for the New card...calculate at least 3-6 months with the testing and getting all the systems talking the same language and on the same page...and add a few months of hype and there you go...an easy 6 months...
pretty smart on their part...I think...
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not really....I assume that they wanted a cutoff date for the New card...calculate at least 3-6 months with the testing and getting all the systems talking the same language and on the same page...and add a few months of hype and there you go...an easy 6 months...
pretty smart on their part...I think...
SPECULATION: It could be related to the WorldElite MC rollout schedule.
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I received a survey this week from AA/Citibank regarding a new premier AMEX credit card. My wife and I spend alot on my personal and business Citibank cards so I don't know if this was targeted at high spenders or a more wider audience. In retrospect, I wish I had written down the questions. So my discussion is based on my memory and the numbers may be slightly off. Annual fee was $250 or $350. Survey questions were designed around prioritizing benefits such as the ability to earn up to 5,000 elite qualifiing points per year based on a 1 to 5 ratio. There was a potential bundling of the Admirals Club membership for $400 annual fee. They also had items such as free companion flights on international first and business fares, reduced mileage awards, free domestic companion certificate, lifetime spending awards, upgrades, first/business check in line and other potential benefits. So these are some of the features that they are considering for the new card. I hope this adds fuel to the speculation.
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I received a survey this week from AA/Citibank regarding a new premier AMEX credit card.
This sounds like a new top-tier AA-cobranded card to add to that lineup rather than the replacement for Chairman to me.
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Admirals Club.... yeahhhh.
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Admirals Club.... yeahhhh.
Do I sense a little sarcasm? :D
I'm starting to think we would be better off with the current setup.
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Admirals club is extrememly beneficial if you have tmobile hotspot acct and fly out of DFW...
Otherwise CO president's club is better since wi fi is free...
for me it make zero difference....I would prefer AC since mt major hub is DFW....
most of my flights are intl and I have await of atleast 2-3hrs...so going from one terminal to the next is no big deal...gets me a little excercise...
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id definitely go for a $400 AA card over $100 diners club. might even get it for a longer period of time.
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Since we are not sure what will happen to the chairman card once it becomes Amex there are alot of merchants out there especially in Eourpe yhat dont except Amex which Visa/MC should I get if miles/points is not much of an issue to me as much as perks and elite status
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Since we are not sure what will happen to the chairman card once it becomes Amex there are alot of merchants out there especially in Eourpe yhat dont except Amex which Visa/MC should I get if miles/points is not much of an issue to me as much as perks and elite status
Merrill Plus Visa is very good if you will spend $50k per year on the card. See http://card.ml.com
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For those of you getting credit cards for prestige, forget it! I have been running some tests and doing some surveys and these are the results:
When presenting the card to a clerk or cashier. They either do not care what card it is or they do not pay any attention to it or they don't know what kind of card it is.
When questioned about their knowledge of cards, the greatest response was that "if the machine takes it, its good". You could give them a card that was solid white with no writing or logos and just a mag stipe and if it worked, fine. Absolutely no one knew what a black card was or any of the other elite cards.
So who are you trying to impress?
Looked at this aspect and unless you go WAY out of your way to make sure a business associate sees the card. (not sure that would be received well) Now if you do make sure they notice only about 15% of them may know about the cards. How would they percieve what you are doing? It may be negatively.
Bottom line, who are you trying to impress?
A card is just a card and if it does not return more than its cost, then it should be a no-brainer.
I am grandfathered on the Centurion and am quite frankly thinking of saying goodbye to it.
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when people consider the quality/expense of their business cards as status symbols, cards like centurion and couts are not going to lose their status anytime soon.
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when people consider the quality/expense of their business cards as status symbols, cards like centurion and couts are not going to lose their status anytime soon.
So you are willing to pay for the "urban legend"....
Let me tell you something...when I sell to a client, it is not thru what I carry in my wallet...it is my reputation and my ability to deliver...
If a client is impressed by a "Black" card, then maybe you need to do some research into that client...
and most people who have made it, it is because they make a decision based on value vs cost, not on image...
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For those of you getting credit cards for prestige, forget it! I have been running some tests and doing some surveys and these are the results:
negatively.
Bottom line, who are you trying to impress?
A card is just a card and if it does not return more than its cost, then it should be a no-brainer.
I am grandfathered on the Centurion and am quite frankly thinking of saying goodbye to it.
100% agree on this one...value vs cost...to me the Chairman has returned more than it costs to me...I haved the lounge 12 times this yr....bought in 4 friends...
got a ticket thru TY at a value of $0.03cents/pt in the PEAK season....
and got a 2 for 1 ticket to Jaimaca for the missus and me at Peak Season in F ...
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when did i say im one of the people i made reference to? :D
i strongly agree with you, personally, but the fact is that there are plenty of people out there who flaunt ridiculously inconsequential things as status symbols.
like 1000 thread count sheets, for example, even though thread count by itself means basically nothing.
(ignorance)
these people might run large companies. they are probably accustomed to being able to purchase anything they want.
(probably more likely always buying the most expensive option rather than ignorance, but at a certain point, that becomes ignorant)
but again, i agree with you, when i have my own company, i will flat out tell them, im not the right provider for you, if they come to me.
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For those of you getting credit cards for prestige, forget it! I have been running some tests and doing some surveys and these are the results:
When presenting the card to a clerk or cashier. They either do not care what card it is or they do not pay any attention to it or they don't know what kind of card it is.
When questioned about their knowledge of cards, the greatest response was that "if the machine takes it, its good". You could give them a card that was solid white with no writing or logos and just a mag stipe and if it worked, fine. Absolutely no one knew what a black card was or any of the other elite cards.
So who are you trying to impress?
Looked at this aspect and unless you go WAY out of your way to make sure a business associate sees the card. (not sure that would be received well) Now if you do make sure they notice only about 15% of them may know about the cards. How would they percieve what you are doing? It may be negatively.
Bottom line, who are you trying to impress?
A card is just a card and if it does not return more than its cost, then it should be a no-brainer.
I am grandfathered on the Centurion and am quite frankly thinking of saying goodbye to it.
I agree. Showing a credit card to demonstrate your wealth means that you do not have enough. The only judge of this is you. No other opinions are valid unless you agree with them.
The truth of the matter is that the person that pulls out the Green card or cash may have more than you do.
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I agree. Showing a credit card to demonstrate your wealth means that you do not have enough. The only judge of this is you. No other opinions are valid unless you agree with them.
The truth of the matter is that the person that pulls out the Green card or cash may have more than you do.
Very interesting point.
For those of you who haven't read it, "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko (1996) does a study on the "average" American millionaire a decade ago. At the time, the prestigious cards were Amex Plat and DC. I believe that only 3% of all millionaires had Amex Plats at the time but 2/3 had JC Penny's Charge cards and about 1/2 had Amex Green cards.
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Very interesting point.
For those of you who haven't read it, "The Millionaire Next Door" by Stanley and Danko (1996) does a study on the "average" American millionaire a decade ago. At the time, the prestigious cards were Amex Plat and DC. I believe that only 3% of all millionaires had Amex Plats at the time but 2/3 had JC Penny's Charge cards and about 1/2 had Amex Green cards.
Excellent read...I made quite a few changes to my lifestyle and habits after reading this....
I recommend it to everyone...
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[QUOTE=drbond]For those of you getting credit cards for prestige, forget it! I have been running some tests and doing some surveys and these are the results:
When presenting the card to a clerk or cashier. They either do not care what card it is or they do not pay any attention to it or they don't know what kind of card it is.
That was exactly my question since Amex is not accepted in a lot of places so "prestige" is not the issue; my question is which Visa/MC will give me benefits and elite status etc. so I can enjoy not the color of the card to impress others. Thanks
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[QUOTE=drbond]For those of you getting credit cards for prestige, forget it! I have been running some tests and doing some surveys and these are the results:
When presenting the card to a clerk or cashier. They either do not care what card it is or they do not pay any attention to it or they don't know what kind of card it is.
That was exactly my question since Amex is not accepted in a lot of places so "prestige" is not the issue; my question is which Visa/MC will give me benefits and elite status etc. so I can enjoy not the color of the card to impress others. Thanks
My favorite is the Merrill+ Visa card. It is very interesting. It has no annual fee. You gain benefits based upon your spending level:
0 - $20,000 per year
- Basic Concierge service
- Decent rewards program. It only gives you 1 point per $. However you can redeem for tickets on American, Delta and a few other premium airlines. You can also purchase a Delta or American club membership
$20,000 - $50,000
- AAdvantage will match your status with another airline (up to AA Platinum)
- 3 nights for the price of 2 at some hotels (I have never used this benefit.)
- Companion ticket offer from Delta on international full-fare flights
$50,000+
- Premium concierge service
- Membership in AA or Delta club
- Business to first class upgrades on BA
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Confirmed the new Chairman chard will be Amex branded. They even have a web page set up now to service the new account. I fugred this because Quicken added this new "Bank" to list of banks you set up in Quicken I guess Citi wanted their beta testers to be able to test thier Quicken support for this new card.
Card is listed like this in Quicken 2007:
Citigroup Chairman Amer. Express
Jacksonville, FL
866-533-6398
http://www.citigroupchairmancard.com
And the download url is:
https://www.accountonline.com/View?docId=Index&siteId=AMXNPL
So I guess The new Chairman card will be a Centurion wana be now.
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So you are willing to pay for the "urban legend"....
Let me tell you something...when I sell to a client, it is not thru what I carry in my wallet...it is my reputation and my ability to deliver...
If a client is impressed by a "Black" card, then maybe you need to do some research into that client...
and most people who have made it, it is because they make a decision based on value vs cost, not on image...
Frankly, it is inappropriate to display wealth with many clients because you cannot be sure how they will react:
1. Some may be envious which could manifest itself negatively
2. Some may believe that you are foolish with money, which is definitely a bad perception
3. Some may be impressed. That may not be a good thing either...
I never show super fancy credit cards, briefcases, watches, suits or my car to my clients. They do not know where I live. I really want to "meet them where they are" and to build a professional relationship not one based upon image. This may be different in some businesses but not in consulting. It you want to piss a client off that spends a lot of money with you. Show them that you make more money than them and that you spend it like a champ.
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<<Business to first class upgrades on BA>>
Be aware Offer is valid with fare code AUQUPG only (equivalent to full J fare basis from the U.S. to London), booked in A class inventory, and subject to availability of inventory.
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Confirmed the new Chairman chard will be Amex branded.
Good find! You can see picture of the front and reverse of the new card here...
https://www.accountonline.com/View?docId=Register&siteId=AMXNPL&IS_AMEX=TRUE&langId=EN#
Click "View Full Sample"
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Anyone try calling the 866 CS number on the web site to ask questions about the new card? The CS number is a totally different one than the one for current Chairman card holders.
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Anyone try calling the 866 CS number on the web site to ask questions about the new card? The CS number is a totally different one than the one for current Chairman card holders.
Yep! It's an AMEX:
"Thank you for calling Member Services for your Citigroup Chairman American Express card."
And it's a different set of PAs. Damn.
The CSR guy that I spoke to was very curt. All he wanted to do was find out how I got the number.
Oh well. I guess I have to get rid of either this one or my Plat Amex. There's probably no point in keeping both. And if they made the CSRs worse, then I see no point in "upgrading".
- SR
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Yep! It's an AMEX:
"Thank you for calling Member Services for your Citigroup Chairman American Express card."
And it's a different set of PAs. Damn.
The CSR guy that I spoke to was very curt. All he wanted to do was find out how I got the number.
Oh well. I guess I have to get rid of either this one or my Plat Amex. There's probably no point in keeping both. And if they made the CSRs worse, then I see no point in "upgrading".
- SR
Geez... I hope all the great benefits from chairman won't just go down the toilet.. Were you able to get the rep to talk to you about the benefits cuz you were just "curious?" ;)
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Geez... I hope all the great benefits from chairman won't just go down the toilet.. Were you able to get the rep to talk to you about the benefits cuz you were just "curious?" ;)
Nope. Not at all. They transfered me to the Account Services Desk who asked me what my Amex number was. I told her that I was a current MC holder. She asked how I got the number for the Amex desk. I told her off the web. She said that she can't answer any questions about the Amex since they don't know where they are going with it but it would be released "probably in Q1, maybe in early Q2 of 2007."
Anyone else care to try?
- SR
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I tried it and was told the same thing. The phone tree surely reminds me of Amex plat though. I'm not sure people will wanna pay for this "upgrade" if they intend to keep this kind of "service" when they launch the new card. If Citi wants to make an exclusive crap card club, there is plenty of competition. This is definitely not what a client retention tool is supposed to be made of.
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Confirmed the new Chairman chard will be Amex branded. They even have a web page set up now to service the new account. I fugred this because Quicken added this new "Bank" to list of banks you set up in Quicken I guess Citi wanted their beta testers to be able to test thier Quicken support for this new card.
Card is listed like this in Quicken 2007:
Citigroup Chairman Amer. Express
Jacksonville, FL
866-533-6398
http://www.citigroupchairmancard.com
And the download url is:
https://www.accountonline.com/View?docId=Index&siteId=AMXNPL
So I guess The new Chairman card will be a Centurion wana be now.
You guys are jumping the gun....This might just be a Chairman Amex like the Chairman MC...or like the AA MC vs the AA AMEX....
I really hope the phone tree is not an "enhancement"....
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I called and got the following information:
1. They have had complaints about spirit incentives and are looking to change to someone else.
2. They have had complaints about phone usage rates and are trying to lower those.
3. They have not had much feedback about what cardmembers want in the way of AX, VI or MC and have not felt that cardmembers cared.
I registered my concern about wanting VI or MC only and would not want a AX as that would decrease my usage and that I also did not need another AX.
They are required to document feedback and it does get read if you state that you wish to lodge a concern about something and want it reviewed. Let's all call and state that we want VI or MC. If you are not a cardholder forget it though.
Next the release information:
Benefits information will be forwarded to CSRs in December. Followed by current Chairman Cardholders between December and February. Followed by Smith Barney Clients between March and May and then released to the others sometime in the third or fourth quarter.
Make those calls now.
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1. They have had complaints about spirit incentives and are looking to change to someone else.nice
Q3/Q4 for new applications, wow...
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Get a Smith Barney Account and you get Q2
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Get a Smith Barney Account and you get Q2
Actually, I am glad that it is becoming an AMEX card. It will simplify my life a bit. I will not need an AMEX Platinum anymore (if Citi keeps the benefits and service level on the Chairman Card). I will use my Merrill+ for Visa/MC only establishments. The only reason for the AMEX Platinum was to get into DL/CO/NW clubs. I can get that on ML+ for free.
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Actually, I am glad that it is becoming an AMEX card. It will simplify my life a bit. I will not need an AMEX Platinum anymore (if Citi keeps the benefits and service level on the Chairman Card). I will use my Merrill+ for Visa/MC only establishments. The only reason for the AMEX Platinum was to get into DL/CO/NW clubs. I can get that on ML+ for free.
My Merrill + does not give CO or NW clubs, just a choice of DL or AA clubs. The perfect combo is Chairman VI or MC and an AX P or C.
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I have already called and lodged my complaint....funny thing is that I will be hitting over $XX,XXX in charges in the past two months combined...lets say over 30....and for the yr end --- very close to six figures...
I told them that if they want my business, it better stay a MC, otherwise, I will walk...
MY CSR who I deal with everytime, said that he would take my case personally to the powers that be...
SO MAKE THE CALLS, PEOPLE...LETS US SHOW THEM HOW POWERFUL THE CONSUMER REALLY IS !!!!
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My Merrill + does not give CO or NW clubs, just a choice of DL or AA clubs. The perfect combo is Chairman VI or MC and an AX P or C.
I travel DL mostly, so Merrill+ works for me.
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Deleted
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I travel DL mostly, so Merrill+ works for me.
Now I am not arguing with you.
But wouldn't an Amex Bus Plat be a better deal for this purpose? $300.00
I know if you are spending over $50k with Merrill+ annually what the answer is.
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Oh, I forgot to mention that the new annual fee will be more along 1k.
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...
1. They have had complaints about spirit incentives and are looking to change to someone else.
2. They have had complaints about phone usage rates and are trying to lower those.
3. They have not had much feedback about what cardmembers want in the way of AX, VI or MC and have not felt that cardmembers cared.
...Make those calls now.
Hello,
I am surprised that these other concerns didn't come up above the phone usage rates:
1) Additional hotel / airline partnerships
2) PP / HHonors, etc for additional cards
3) Website - Though this looks like it was fixed
4) Equivalent programs for FHR / Gold Card Events, etc.
5) Use of the Chairman MC as a compliment to an Amex card.
Just my .02. I guess I'll give them a call and let them know that I don't want yet another Amex. So I guess I'll have to look elsewhere for a MC/VI.
- SR
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Has anyone gotten their annual fee for the Chairman card waived? How? Wasn't there a promotion for 1st year free? When was that?
Don't forget to call and say No to Amex!
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...surprised that these other concerns didn't come up above the phone usage rates - SR
I take this to mean that Citigroup management believes the Chairman CSRs are spending too much time on the phone with cardholders, and they will implement changes to reduce the number and duration of calls which, in turn, will allow them to reduce CSR to cardholder ratio.
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I take this to mean that Citigroup management believes the Chairman CSRs are spending too much time on the phone with cardholders, and they will implement changes to reduce the number and duration of calls which, in turn, will allow them to reduce CSR to cardholder ratio.
Hello mia,
I agree that this is what the concern probably was on the part of citibank. Personally, I like the 1-to-1 contact that the CSRs provided.
On another note, this transition is going to limit combining credit limits with other Citi AA bonus cards. Get them while you can. You can always do this with a Citi PP elite, but it was just easier with the Chairman MC.
- SR
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I take this to mean that Citigroup management believes the Chairman CSRs are spending too much time on the phone with cardholders, and they will implement changes to reduce the number and duration of calls which, in turn, will allow them to reduce CSR to cardholder ratio.
When talking to the CSR yesterday, I mentioned the "enhancement" called the AMEX phone tree....
He said that even if they went with AMEX, I would still be dealing with him and not a tree...
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When talking to the CSR yesterday, I mentioned the "enhancement" called the AMEX phone tree....
He said that even if they went with AMEX, I would still be dealing with him and not a tree...
That is comforting, I hate raking leaves. :D
So what about a waived annual fee?
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That is comforting, I hate raking leaves. :D
So what about a waived annual fee?
Annual fee being waived -- HIGHLY DOUBT IT....
I also told them that not everyone in world lives or flies thru NYC....so a upgrade from J to F on BA is WORTHLESS to a lot of people on the West Coast/ Southwest/South and Midwest....
A lot of people would prefer the following:
1) hotel and airline status
2) Better availability of rewards
3) Better earning potential
4) Something to the likes of FHR - LHW is a freaking JOKE !!!!
Let us see what happens....
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That is comforting, I hate raking leaves. :D
So what about a waived annual fee?
Currently, the annual fee can only be waived for qualified Smith Barney clients.
-> If you are an Accel Select client, you get $100 waived the first year.
-> If you are an Accel Prestige client, you get the entire $300 waived for the first year.
-> If you are an Accel Private Wealth Management client, you get the entire fee waived every year.
I do not believe there are any other exceptions. With the changes that are coming, these are probably will change as well.
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Called the 866-533-6398 number and here is what I find out:
that number is for the Concierge only....they transferred me to acct service when I asked for more info on the card....and this is the AMEX Concierge Service not VIP DESK....NO !!!!!
Acct services could not give me any info... and said to wait till 2007...
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<<not everyone in world lives or flies thru NYC....so a upgrade from J to F on BA is WORTHLESS to a lot of people on the West Coast/ Southwest/South and Midwest>>
:confused: . 1) Do you have reason to believe Citi is considering adding BA-specific benefits to Chairman card? 2) How did NYC enter into the discussion? BA flies from London to cities throughout the US, including the regions you mentioned.
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<<not everyone in world lives or flies thru NYC....so a upgrade from J to F on BA is WORTHLESS to a lot of people on the West Coast/ Southwest/South and Midwest>>
:confused: . 1) Do you have reason to believe Citi is considering adding BA-specific benefits to Chairman card? 2) How did NYC enter into the discussion? BA flies from London to cities throughout the US, including the regions you mentioned.
because of your post # 97...
is that not a benefit of the new crad?
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because of your post # 97...
is that not a benefit of the new card?
Ah! I see. In message #94 of this thread someone listed the benefits of Merrill+ VISA. I was responding to that message, but while I was researching the restrictions two more messages were posted and the context was lost.
It wouldn't surprise me if Citi incorporated such benefits in Chairman because it already has a relationship with BA, see Diners Club and Carte Blanche, but I have no specific information. Sorry for the confusion.
dennis
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Ah! I see. In message #94 of this thread someone listed the benefits of Merrill+ VISA. I was responding to that message, but while I was researching the restrictions two more messages were posted and the context was lost.
It wouldn't surprise me if Citi incorporated such benefits in Chairman because it already has a relationship with BA, see Diners Club and Carte Blanche, but I have no specific information. Sorry for the confusion.
dennis
sorry for my confusion...maybe this will be translated all the way up to citibank upper mgmt....
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sorry for my confusion...maybe this will be translated all the way up to Citibank upper mgmt....
Hello,
Not to add further confusion, but I just spoke to an FA over at Smith Barney who has been trying to get me to jump ship to SB. At my request, he conferenced me in with a Chairman Amex CSR. It seems that there are going to be two versions of the card.
A $400 MC version - the current version, and a $1000+ version that will be branded with Amex that will have a bunch of added benefits. This new version will have a stricter acceptance policy, e.g. it will be harder to get than the current MC branded card.
The reason that the current version has stopped taking applications is that all current MC holders will have the option to autoatically upgrade to the new version. So citigroup didn't want that many people upgrading to the new version since they may not otherwise qualify for the new card. You can get both cards if you'd like.
I had a meeting to get to so I wasn't able to ask any questions like:
- What are the new benefits?
- What are the new qualifications?
- Hotel programs, etc. Though the CSR did mention Hyatt, but not what in relation to Hyatt.
- Airlines, etc.
Sorry about the incomplete information. I'll try to give the FA a call next week to get some more info. I just have to pretend that i'm interested in working with him.
- SR
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Well, I guess it is positive to see that they are Citi is looking for a person to coordinate services for the Chairman card. They have this position open.
VP/Marketing Manager – 06039731
Job Description
Apply Online
Description
Within Smith Barney Team, manage the overall cardmember experience including servicing strategy (account servicing), customer benefits experience with our concierge provider and other 3rd party benefit providers. Position will support Chairman Card and other Smith Barney clients. Management of servicing strategy/experience for all Smith Barney clients including those in SB portfolio and clients with Citi branded cards. Crucial to the success of Chairman card is the development of a "Hub" benefits/servicing/concierge model. Responsibilities include developing the linkages between Smith Barney, Cards account services, concierge and other 3rd party benefit providers. Must ensure seamless customer experience, coordination and development of training on overall product, testing call experience, develop benefit hierarchy, evaluate concierge MIS, and make improvements as necessary. Ability to create flexible/work around solutions to create great experience for clients.
Specifications / Qualifications
Bachelors degree required, advance degree a plus. Necessary skills/experience: financial services/travel/affluent marketing experience. Experience managing external vendors and strong interpersonal and relationship management skills required. Strong project management a plus. Direct Marketing experience a plus. Must be flexible and creative.
Profile
Job Function Marketing
Location NAM-US-NY-Long Island City
Employee Status Full-time
Education Level Bachelor's Degree
Shift Day Job
Employee Type Regular
Exempt Status Exempt
Travel Yes, 10 % of the Time
Additional Information
Posting Date October 30, 2006
Number of Positions 1
Relocation
No
Business Area
Citi Cards - Front End
Alternate Requisition Number
CBVCR
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A $400 MC version - the current version, and a $1000+ version that will be branded with Amex that will have a bunch of added benefits. This new version will have a stricter acceptance policy, e.g. it will be harder to get than the current MC branded card.
Okay, the benefits we've heard so far do not nearly add up to $600/yr extra... So obviously there's a good bit more to it if they intend on seriously marketing this card as a Centurion-alternative, as it seems.
I would really hope they'd let current cardholders keep a MC version for free if upgrading, since the Chairman Card is my only decent non-Amex issued card at the moment. Of course, I'm going to call and let them know that.
If I did upgrade to the new card as an Amex, chances are that my average monthly spend would be approximately...$0, unless they had a significantly better rewards program than I get from various Amex-issued cards. So it all boils down to card benefits for me: Priority Pass, concierge, and decent rewards for when I can't use Amex are worth $400/yr to me. I wonder what they can offer me that might be worth $600 more.
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If the new card is an AMEX -- I will spend exactly $0 -- unless this extra $600 has a lot of new benefits that appeal to me....right now, I am perfectly happy with the $400 version....
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I suspect a lot of others are in the same boat: using Amex-issued Amex cards for most purchases and using something like the Chairman Card to a lesser degree. (Or using an airline affinity card as a primary card.)
I would assume the primary factor for issuing the new Chairman Card as an Amex is to increase their take on merchant fees. (Isn't that part of the purpose of the World Elite MC platform though? Hmm.) My guess is that existing members who upgrade will, on average, spend significantly less than they do now. New members will probably be those who fall somewhere between the Amex Platinum and Centurion demographics, which is obviously a fairly wide gap. I guess those members will make up for our reduced spending.
An alternate explanation could be that they've struck some sort of deal with Amex to perhaps get access to some exclusively-Amex partners, but requiring the card to be branded as an Amex to do so. That could be quite an interesting turn.
In order to get those new members, of course, Citi will have to market the card to them fairly heavily. I foresee a mid-sized but very highly targetted advertising campaign next year.
Now if they could only figure out some way to combine my 6+ primary cards that I'm forced to shuffle around to maximize rewards into one card... :) I'd gladly pay well more than the combined annual fees for such a thing!
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I am leaving tomorrow to go to Anchorage for the weekend and need to know what I can do this weekend. I told both the same thing and said for Saturday and Sunday. I told them I wanted the prices and if they were open and what times.
I gave the task to both Amex Plat Concierge and Citigroup Chairman Concierge. I was not impressed with Chairman because they recommended that I go to the Alaska Zoo and that I take a bus tour to Denali Park and spend a day in Denali Park, they also recommended the Alaska Railway. All of which are closed.
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if the $400 card is like a souped up AA charge card, I'd probably go for that.
for the $1000 card, while i'd like a better concierge in addition to vipdesk, that probably is not realistic at all for only $1000.
dropping even the vipdesk PAs from either or both cards would probably be the second biggest mistake after shifting to amex.
hotel benefits would be the thing to add to attract me.
sounds like little bits of info are starting to come out. will be very interesting to see what they do.
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I wonder if the AMEX branded card will support virtual account numbers. I use this feature all the time for buying things on-line. Does anyone have any of the other Citibank AMEX credit cards and know if they support virtual account numbers? AMEX used to have a privatepayments service that was similar, but they canceled it a number of years ago.
I also hope that the new card offers something useful with UA and AA, rather than just skyteam. I already get more skyteam benefits than I need with AMEX (including MR point transfers and lounge access). One of the things that drew me to the Chairman card is that you can get free flights on AA and UA. (UA is of particular interest to me since SFO is my home airport and I have status.)
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A $400 MC version - the current version, and a $1000+ version that will be branded with Amex that will have a bunch of added benefits. This new version will have a stricter acceptance policy, e.g. it will be harder to get than the current MC branded card.
Disappointing. I don't need another Amex.
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I suspect a lot of others are in the same boat: using Amex-issued Amex cards for most purchases and using something like the Chairman Card to a lesser degree. (Or using an airline affinity card as a primary card.)
I would assume the primary factor for issuing the new Chairman Card as an Amex is to increase their take on merchant fees. (Isn't that part of the purpose of the World Elite MC platform though? Hmm.) My guess is that existing members who upgrade will, on average, spend significantly less than they do now. New members will probably be those who fall somewhere between the Amex Platinum and Centurion demographics, which is obviously a fairly wide gap. I guess those members will make up for our reduced spending.
An alternate explanation could be that they've struck some sort of deal with Amex to perhaps get access to some exclusively-Amex partners, but requiring the card to be branded as an Amex to do so. That could be quite an interesting turn.
In order to get those new members, of course, Citi will have to market the card to them fairly heavily. I foresee a mid-sized but very highly targetted advertising campaign next year.
Now if they could only figure out some way to combine my 6+ primary cards that I'm forced to shuffle around to maximize rewards into one card... :) I'd gladly pay well more than the combined annual fees for such a thing!
I use my Chaimran as my primary and it is the only card I keep in my wallet....
It works good for me and the pt redemptions are good enough for the flights....
also, now that Sam club is accepting MC for purchases, there is NO WAY I would get a Chairman AMEX.....since I earn 3 pts per dollar for buying gas at Sam's....and by next yr..all SAMS CLUBS will have E-85
and I can buy online and pick up at Sam's and now pay with my MC....PERFECT!!!!!
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I too already have Plat AMEX and use Chairman most of the time (and always where AMEX is not accepted). I am willing to pay them each $400 but can't see the benefit (so far) for spending an additional $600. I also don't need or want another AMEX and like that between the 2 cards I can charge virtually anywhere. I did call Chairman CSR and expressed that another AMEX with no MC or VS option would be a big mistake and the rep seemed interested in my opinion and promissed to pass that info on to the higher ups. I now see from more recent posts that we may have both options which would be great.
Just my 2 cents....
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Now I am not arguing with you.
But wouldn't an Amex Bus Plat be a better deal for this purpose? $300.00
I know if you are spending over $50k with Merrill+ annually what the answer is.
Here is my profile:
125,000 miles per year
Most of it on Delta; some on AA and some on other airlines
100 nights per year at Hilton
$7,000+ per month spending
Free access to DL club this year; next year its $125; after that its $250
As a result, I maintain:
- 300,000 - 400,000 HH Points and Diamond status
- 100,000 - 200,000 DL Miles and Platinum status
I use my points and miles several times a year for personal travel and still maintain these point levels. Therefore, the key benefits for me in order of preference are:
- DL club
- Excellent customer service and concierge
- Points
- Excellent travel insurance
- Status with AA et al for occasional flights
- Access to other airline clubs
- Status with Marriott and SPG for occasional stays (Usually I am comp-ed status in both programs)
For credit cards, I now use:
- HH AMEX for Hilton stays
- Chairman for airfare and grocery/gas/drug
- Diners Club for car rentals
- Merrill+2 for everything else
- AMEX Platinum for nothing
It finally dawned upon me that I have so many HH points and DL miles that I do not need more hotel points or airline miles. So, I now use my Chairman and Merrill+ to buy gift cards and luxury items for birthdays, holidays, etc. (It may sound ridiculous, but the value of miles and points are going down. I have to find some means of getting rid of them.)
Chairman and Merrill+ are really the only premium cards that I need.
Chairman gives me: Priority Pass and an excellent concierge
Merrill+2 gives me: AA Platinum (a thing of beauty)
If Chairman goes to $1,000 per year, I may switch to PP Elite and Merrill+3. Unless I get something really special from Citi.
(As a side note, Merrill gave me a substantial credit line that shows up on my credit report. My Citi credit line is smaller and does not show up on my credit report. I am getting tired of watching my Chairman card balance and paying it off before the statement date.)
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I use my Chaimran as my primary and it is the only card I keep in my wallet....
It works good for me and the pt redemptions are good enough for the flights....
also, now that Sam club is accepting MC for purchases, there is NO WAY I would get a Chairman AMEX.....since I earn 3 pts per dollar for buying gas at Sam's....and by next yr..all SAMS CLUBS will have E-85
and I can buy online and pick up at Sam's and now pay with my MC....PERFECT!!!!!
Careful on the Sam's Gas thing.
If you buy groceries at Wal-Mart you do not get supermarket miles or points. They are coded as a department store not a supermarket. Also many of thier gas stations are coded the same.
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Careful on the Sam's Gas thing.
If you buy groceries at Wal-Mart you do not get supermarket miles or points. They are coded as a department store not a supermarket. Also many of thier gas stations are coded the same.
The Sam's I use is not coded as that....I get all my double points at the Sam's gas station.....
For shopping at Sam's I really don't care since the I buy every 2-3 months...
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More infor on the "New Card" --
Talked to my CSR and this is what he told after his many meetings with upper mgmt --
1) Not to worry as nothing definite has been decided.
2) The $400 version is going to be the same...they will still offer it for new customers beginning Jan 2007....a good cutoff date was sept 15th so that when they offer the v2 -- they will know which customers to upgrade .... also the cutting off apps is to create a demand..,understandable and good marketing...I do it all the time in my business...
3) They are "BETA" testing the AMEX only -- since it needs to mesh with their systems and platforms...
4) MC won't be a problem because CITI has been a partner with MC for years and years....no need to BETA test...
My CSR gets the feeling that the following will be offered:
400 version of Chairman -- current one with zero change in beneftits
1000 version of Chairman with MC -- with a huge increase in benefits
1000 version of Chairman AMEX -- same benefits as the MC version...
No reason to get all worried.....they will let us know by the end of DEC.....
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so the current card is definitely remaining, and theyre probably going to offer $1000 card on both MC and AX. interesting. too bad the $400 isnt going the AA route.
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BTW -- my CSR showed them all the posts on Flyertalk.com ---- as proof as to what the members thought of the AMEX deal....
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All this Amex talk is making me nervous. "Sorry Sir, we don’t take American Express." The thought of having to hear those words again makes me cringe. I sure am glad that I never cancelled my Diners. At least I have a backup plan if they decide to negatively alter the current MasterCard version of the Chairman.
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so the current card is definitely remaining, and theyre probably going to offer $1000 card on both MC and AX. interesting. too bad the $400 isnt going the AA route.
you might get that next yr....
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$1000 ???
Is this some sort of centurian card? That is damn high!
If I wanted to get the chairman card since I hold a platinum and noone accepts it, what citi card would I get now so when the new card comes out I can get it. (if its worth $1000)
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it helps if you read some of the thread :P
its going to be 1 year before $1000 card is out for public, no idea on when $400 is back out.. maybe as soon as they have transitioned the current cardholders?
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it helps if you read some of the thread :P
its going to be 1 year before $1000 card is out for public, no idea on when $400 is back out.. maybe as soon as they have transitioned the current cardholders?
This thread is way to long and touches on points that have nothing to do with the title. Ive tried to read but im not going to spend 45 minutes to study it.
anyone else wnat to answere the question in regards to what card to get to get the chairman? Kind of like gold before platinum etc.. on amex
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This thread is way to long and touches on points that have nothing to do with the title. Ive tried to read but im not going to spend 45 minutes to study it.
anyone else wnat to answere the question in regards to what card to get to get the chairman? Kind of like gold before platinum etc.. on amex
I had the basic Premier Pass for about 4-5 months and simply called CSR to ask about upgrading to Chairman. She did it all over the phone with me in about 5 mins. Simply sent me a Chairman Card with same number as my current PP card and said to keep using the PP until Chairman arrived and then to cut up old PP. I would be charged a non-refundable $400 for Chairman. Real simple and great customer service. I have no other Citi relationships other than credit cards so I don't think this was anything special for them to do.
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if you read any of the last few pages, that would give you plenty of info.
premier pass elite is the only card close to chairman, but it has a limit on the number of points you can earn.
The total number of ThankYou Purchase and ThankYou Flight Points (" ThankYou Points") that may be earned is 200,000 per calendar year (eligible purchases appearing on your January – December billing statements), only 100,000 of which may be ThankYou Flight Points
amex plat and starwood
mc chairman and diners club
i guess most people would be fine with premier pass elite until chairman is open to public again though actually.
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apply for the PP elite and then pray to GOD that they will upgrade you to Chairman....
Make sure you have excellent payment and charge history....
As for the new card, do not even try to upgrade till Q3 because that is where you are at....
Only existing Chairman customers (pre sept 15) will get a shot at it in Q1....
Thej Smith Barney clients in Q2
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In short read the thread! You need the other information.
You cannot get a Chairman Card now or in the next 9 months, maybe longer.
If you want a Citi card get the PPE or just sit back and wait. You are not goint to upgrade any Citi card that you get now to a Chairman until the same time that you could apply for the card directly.
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exactly....I agree reading the thread is time consuming...but hey you got 9 months...
GOOD LUCK !!
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Only existing Chairman customers (pre sept 15) will get a shot at it in Q1....
Thej Smith Barney clients in Q2
I applied on the deadline and didn't get my acceptance until Sep 17. Does that mean I am not going to get an invite in Q1?
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if you got it, shouldnt you be good to go?
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I applied on the deadline and didn't get my acceptance until Sep 17. Does that mean I am not going to get an invite in Q1?
If you have the card, you have the answer. :confused:
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Both were put forth again and again by a well liked, respected FT contributor.
Still its the speculation of ONE poster based on his contact with customer service.
There has been no announcement from Citicorp that this is the date.
If I am in error please provide a press release.
Moreover even a press release from management can not be relied on in stone.
negociations during strategic meetings can take on an extended , protracted timetable.
In a way, I hope that it is not early first quarter. lets hope that they are negociating with several meaningful partners and potential alliances and that they come out with something really really good. Not haphazzard or half a**.
I viewed the $400 card as a poor value, ( but then I don't Fly 100,000 miles any more. - If I did I might feel diffrently. Thats why I wait until early sept to apply. I wanted to see what the 1000 version offered.)
I have a feeling it will be ONE hotel top tier status like diamond Hyatt.
Automatic upgrades confirmed at reservation ( not subject to availability) plus ammenities at fewer hotels than FHR , but better Benis.
I am hoping for all members to be Gold or if Gold upgraded to plat on AA
Admirial Club membership in addition to priority Pass.
Remember Citi has a very long involved relationship with American.
Perhaps capacity control but confirmed free upgrades on AA at Y fares.
Or real business class discounts, not the current weak 2:1 programs.
Also its only a rumor, speculation and conjecture that "Original" Chairan Card holders will be treated special.
Is everyone certain that Citcorp would treat current holders of a $400 credit card better than a high networth individual with ten million dollars in investable assets that generate $100,000 in management fees at a 1% asset mgt. rate and $150,000 a year in fees at 1.5%?
Perhaps it makes better business sense to treat he guy who is giving you a $150,000 a year profit better than the guy giving you $700 in revenue that require service. ($400 fee , $300 merchant fee profit after deduted time float and inevitable write offs of bad debt)
But we are getting it Q1 and Smith Barney creme de la creme after us in Q2?
I'm hoping for centurion - type perks( original benefits from the heyday) of some ELITE STATUS in hotel programs and Airline.
Also $3 TY points per dollar spent would be amazing.
The concierge personal asst. aspect is of nominal value to me as I am pretty resouceful, hands on and with my OCD very hands on. I figure I can do it better than even a good concierge, so I might as well do it myself.
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How would you know if it is not worth anything till you try it? You said you waited till Sept to apply....
Answer this ONE questions:
1) If you drop a call with Amex Plat (395/yr) -- will they call you back to see what you needed or wanted?
If the answer is yes, then your points/assumptions all have some validity...if the answer is NO (which I am positive it is), your pts/assumptions do nto really have any strength....
The way I see it, if Citi is already providing EXCELLENT customer service, then 400/yr is well worth it....considering the fact that all everyone on FT is complaining about are the call centers to India....poor customer service with Amex, Chase, Bof A....
At least we get excellent customer service, Amercian taught call center, and cherry and nice CSR's...Priority Pass and much better benefits than any AMex card can offer and yet we are complaining...
Spolied are'nt we ???
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<<if Citi is already providing EXCELLENT customer service...>>
Will this continue? Already we have a report that Citi management is "concerned" about the amount of telephone support provided to existing Chairman cardholders. Look back a few years in the Diners Club message section. Members rave about the customer service, but today it is perceived as indistinuishable from any other Citi Mastercard product. Part of Citi's challenge in relaunching Chairman will be to convince cardholders that the service is more than an introductory perq.
dennis
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"If the answer is yes, then your points/assumptions all have some validity...if the answer is NO (which I am positive it is), your pts/assumptions do nto really have any strength...."
as to if I have had a dropped call returned ?:confused:
Actually, My friend my points / assumptions? (actually speculations) had no critisism of Citi Charman Customer service. Nor was I raving about Amex, at least in this post. I think with you being very partisan to Chairman, you misread my post.
My points/speculations dealt with:
1- The Flyertalk universal acceptance that:
a. The new card would be the credit card industry equivilent of the second comming of Jesus Christ.
b.current card holders would get NO LATER THAN March 31. ( this was "moved backed "-by you not citi's executive management ;) from NO LATER THAN JANUARY 31.
c.really rich people who are very important to Citi's profit line would get the card after us NO LATER THAN JUNE 30.
The point of my post was that neither the:
Benefits or perks, if any, are known to us.: AND
The exact dates can not be assumed.
My point is lets not get carried away.
Moreover, I acknowledged that as a less frequent flyer than before that the flight points aspect was of less appeal to me than it would be to someone like you.
So lets not get carried away and hype this thing into Global services on UA or Exec. Plat. on AA
It is possible that project will be scrapped and lef in tact. What I said was If I knew this to be the end result, I would not have gottten Chairman as obviously , I have been aware of this option snice at least March.
But relax, I gave you props by getting the card. :D
I figured it was worth $400 in case you were right.
I not saying it won't be big, unlike the startrack guy in the priceline commercial.
What I am saying is that we don't know, and this thread has kind of exhausted the discussion, at least for now.
I'd be intrest in your views , comments on the SUBSTANCE of the above post.
I made no observations about dropped calls nor said that Chairman customer service was lacking. You defended a non exsistent attack.
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What's it going to be? ......... All speculation is welcome.
The Original Poster.
Post #1.
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[QUOTE=mia]<<if Citi is already providing EXCELLENT customer service...>>
Will this continue? Already we have a report that Citi management is "concerned" about the amount of telephone support provided to existing Chairman cardholders. Look back a few years in the Diners Club message section. Members rave about the customer service, but today it is perceived as indistinuishable from any other Citi Mastercard product. Part of Citi's challenge in relaunching Chairman will be to convince cardholders that the service is more than an introductory perq.
Well, I think the poster that you quote equates exellent customer service with his very good experiences with the concierge service. That in his view it was much better than Amex Plat. Concierge.
I don't have a comparative experience, bit Chairman concierge can not be worse. Amex Plat concierge is USELESS.
So is Platnium Travel Services for everything EXCEPT FHR bookings.
And I would like to be able to book FHR on my own on line Reps are so bad, self service would be an enhancement.
I said in my post that I care very little about concierge and VIP desks.
I care about:
Point accural, good customer service, easy to make disputes ( hence $30 Starwood).
Flexiable point accural and big time perks at $20K &$50 spend with a free card ML PLUS.
Incrediable , I have found the Merrill Plus customer serice to be BETTER than Amex!
for a hefty fee, I care about hotel and travel benefits ( and some hotel options below $400-500 a night would be nice) and EXTRA point accural.
If the $75 card gets 1 TY point per spend and some others ( free or much lower annual fee) also get 1 TY pt, then the $400 card should get 2 or 3.
top tier on an airline earn a bonus of 100 to 125% above base. Why not top tier with a charge card.
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since it appears the $400 is going to remain the same to compete with plat, maybe the $1000 will have AA benefits. but i dont see that as worth much, im going for 2MM and then switching to CX.
hotel benefits are the thing that would make me interested in the $1000 card.
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Who said it was going to be $1000.00 anyway. I have been told between $600.00 to $800.00. Maybe if everyone keeps screaming 1k that is what it will become. As I know I was in a meeting today and the flyertalk printout was there as an example of proof that higher fees would be accepted. People on here just don't get how much what they say, goes to hurt them. :rolleyes:
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i really dont care what the fee is :D
id pay a lot for hotel benefits.
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Who said it was going to be $10