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Question
I have been searching Premier pass information on the internet which led me to this forum. I am not sure if it is a scam or I had been lucky getting air miles transfer to my thankyou network.
Here is my situation.
I applied PP elite credit card last year for $75 fee and got 15000 bonus miles which was transferred to my Thankyou member account within 3 months after my first purchase, I then started buying airline tickets for me and my family and continued getting those flying mile transferred to thankyou member acc on 1mile flown:1 thankyou point ratio. I then redeemed those miles for 3 tickets and was happy. So far so good.
Since last couple of month some of my old airline tickets mile didn't get transferred to my thankyou member acc. I bought the tickets the same way as I did before and sent them the Itinerates and boarding stubs. After contacting them they told me they have received the paper work but they won't transfer the miles to my thankyou network for redemption, I have earned the miles and its in the pipeline and it shows on the monthly statement but in order to get those points I have to make the same amount of purchase on my credit card, which means if I fly 30,000 miles I will get those miles only if I spend $30,000. This got me very frustrated because I am not spending 30,000 any time soon.
I have no idea what to do; I didn't churn the card and paid another $75 fee a month ago. My 30,000 miles are stuck in the pipeline and I have been told I will receive it only if I make $30,000 purchases. What should I do? Please help. Is this happened to any one else?

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Welcome to FT! You'll be able to seach in this forum and find that this is how the card is set up. It's a very beneficial rewards program that can get you multiple points per dollar spend. However, for each mile received for travel, you need a matching dollar spent for those to count as TY points that are redeemable.
You should have read the rules more carefully, as this is how the card was set up.
You can do one of two things:
1. Cancel the card and ask them for the $75 back, provided you spend that in the last 30 days.
2. Continue to use the card, knowing you will get 2 points per dollar spent.
Good flying!
Best Regards,
Jayzee9

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Welcome to FT....
Sorry, but you are SOL .....
That is the way the card is setup and everyone on this forum has understood and accepted it....you can't get something for nothing....
But at least you got 3 tickets out of it without getting caught...at first the Premier Pass CC did not take into acct flight points vs. actual spending...they have fixed this bug...now only $1 spent = 1 flight point .....
I have approx 8000 flight points stuck in my business cc...
oh well....

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Thanks a lot guys, I thought it was just me but if it's that's in their terms and condition then I will cancel it in a couple of days. I am going to give it a last try with the customer rep and see if we can work out some thing, if not then will say bye bye to the card.

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Thanks a lot guys, I thought it was just me but if it's that's in their terms and condition then I will cancel it in a couple of days. I am going to give it a last try with the customer rep and see if we can work out some thing, if not then will say bye bye to the card.
I don't think there is anything to work out. Citi is under no obligation to "work it out" under the current T&C. If Traveler1404 visit this forum before applying for this card, he/she would have known. So the word "scam" in OP is just wrong. You can't blame citi because you don't read T&C.

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its not a scam... thats how their system works, and to me that makes it worthless :D
plus, lack of international first class.
its clearly your fault for not understanding that, even though you could say they were somewhat misleading.

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its not a scam... thats how their system works, and to me that makes it worthless :D
plus, lack of international first class.
its clearly your fault for not understanding that, even though you could say they were somewhat misleading.
Let's be nice. The orignal poster is new to Flyer Talk.
Yes. The program works as follows:
a. 1 point per $ spent
b. 2 points per $ spent at grocery stores, etc.
c. Each point that is earned can be matched by a flight point.
d. If you keep flight points laying you effectively earn:
2 pt = 1 purchase pt + 1 flight pt per $ spent
4 pt = 1 purchase pt + 1 flight pt per $ spent at grocery stores, etc.
On average, this is comparable or better than all Citi Thankyou Cards except for Chairman Card. (For some people, other cards may be better.)
These points are great except that they cannot be used for upgrades. I primarily use the points for purchasing gift cards. This guarantees a 2-6% earning per $ spent on my Chairman Card. In your case it would be a 2-4% earning on your PP Elite. That is pretty good these days.
ThankYou points are useful for Domestic coach travel.

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im sorry but as others have pointed out, you don't call things scams when YOU are the one in error. heck, you dont even call it a scam when there is simply a misunderstanding on anyone's part.
people, new and old, are throwing it around way too much on FT.
its supposed to mean behavior that is at least unethical, if not illegal.

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plus, lack of international first class.
actually they have first class..you have to call and look for the tickets you want and then they will give you the point redemption....
with the Chairman card, you also get 2 for 1 - got tickets to Jaimaca in Dec. in F for 900R/T each for me and my wife....in the 2 for 1 deal...
just be prepared to redeem a lot of point for Firt, but the point earning is so great, it really does not bother me....
I have been with TY network for exactly 2 yrs now and have earned 415,000pts....should clear 600,000 by years end...spedning is nowhere near that amt...maybe 60%

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so you spent $107K per year for 2 years, and now are going to spend $87K in 2 months?
or are you counting flight points that you cant redeem yet?
also..
NH 120K EU-Asia F
lets say it costs $10K, that means 1 million TYN right?
500K flight points plus $500K spending matches = both are redeemable
starwood card earns at about 1.25 meaning $96K spending. (not counting starwood bonus)
5X spending required, plus flying 500K miles

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so you spent $107K per year for 2 years, and now are going to spend $87K in 2 months?
or are you counting flight points that you cant redeem yet?
also..
NH 120K EU-Asia F
lets say it costs $10K, that means 1 million TYN right?
500K flight points plus $500K spending matches = both are redeemable
starwood card earns at about 1.25 meaning $96K spending. (not counting starwood bonus)
5X spending required, plus flying 500K miles
Way less than 107k in actual spending...remember that Thank you merchants also offer extra points for shopping with them....actual spending for the yr 2005 which includes Chairman and Premier Pass which came to approx 85,300 and some change...also, with Premier Pass I did not earn the extra point as you would with Chairman...I have had the Chairman since Sept 2005....
I am counting some miles that I have not yet earned but have been booked....for this yr since I have yet to take the flight...
I am earning approx 4-5 pt per dollar spent...so a biz class ticket to Bombay is 165,000/4 = $41250 in actual spending for me...for others it might be a bit different.....and I get my pick of airline...which earns me FF miles in C class since they actually buy me a ticket...
I do not think that Starwood could beat this...

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so you spent $107K per year for 2 years, and now are going to spend $87K in 2 months?
or are you counting flight points that you cant redeem yet?
also..
NH 120K EU-Asia F
lets say it costs $10K, that means 1 million TYN right?
500K flight points plus $500K spending matches = both are redeemable
starwood card earns at about 1.25 meaning $96K spending. (not counting starwood bonus)
5X spending required, plus flying 500K miles
your calculations on Thank You Points could be totally off base. They don't publish rates for F international, so you need to call and ask about specific flights instead of assuming in order to bolster your position. I recall that another poster got 2 F tickets North America - India for approximately 160k TY Points each. Search this forum for more details.
Also, Thank You point-ticketed flights earn FF miles; earn EQMs; are eligible for upgrades; have no capacity controls; and have no blackout dates. This makes them potentially much more valuable than airline miles accrued by SPG Amex transfer.
At any rate, I agree that the word "scam" should be deleted from the very misleading title of this altogether unnecessary thread.

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they were C tickets (business not first)
a chairman cardholder stated that first is only a custom award which is a 1 cent per point redemption IIRC
(there are business options ex-US, so i did not say it didnt offer that)
i dont recall people talking about earning bonuses before. did i miss that?
it has a thing similar to everyday spending on premier pass elite, youre saying chairman gets 3 or more points per dollar instead of 2 anaggie?

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Sorry guys, if I have offended you by saying "IT’S A SCAM". If you read the original post it clearly stats that I am new to FT and that I am learning new tricks and trade. A simple explanation would have been enough.
Thanks to guys who answered my questions without being my dad. It's a mistake and I have learned a lesson.

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I bought that credit card for free gas because I was bored one day. It offers a 60% return on your money in 2 months. Here's how it penciled out for me: No purchases necessary, for the $75 annual fee you get 15,000 Thank You Points = Two $50 (2 x 6000 TYP's) + Two $10 (2 x 1500 TYP's) Shell gas cards = $120, minus the $75 annual fee = $45 in free gas. I intend to close the account prior to renewal. Far from great, it's not bad, and it's just one of dozens of credit card accounts I play with.

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they were C tickets (business not first)
a chairman cardholder stated that first is only a custom award which is a 1 cent per point redemption IIRC
(there are business options ex-US, so i did not say it didnt offer that)
i dont recall people talking about earning bonuses before. did i miss that?
it has a thing similar to everyday spending on premier pass elite, youre saying chairman gets 3 or more points per dollar instead of 2 anaggie?
Chairman gets 3 pts per dollar spent on everyday spending such as the gas stations, drugstores and so forth....
Then there is also TY merchants who give you bonus pts...I bought a $800 LCD TV for my bedroom thru Crutchfield online and I earned 7 pt per dollar spent...
Then last Christmas I did my entire shopping online with TY merchants and earned a ton of points that way...approx 3000 extra per month till Feb/Mar after all the Xmas purchases came thru...
Will do same thing this yr...you can also get TY pts for shopping at Drugstore.com and so forth...
It really maximizes your points...

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Chairman gets 3 pts per dollar spent on everyday spending such as the gas stations, drugstores and so forth....
Then there is also TY merchants who give you bonus pts...I bought a $800 LCD TV for my bedroom thru Crutchfield online and I earned 7 pt per dollar spent...
Then last Christmas I did my entire shopping online with TY merchants and earned a ton of points that way...approx 3000 extra per month till Feb/Mar after all the Xmas purchases came thru...
Will do same thing this yr...you can also get TY pts for shopping at Drugstore.com and so forth...
It really maximizes your points...
If you travel frequently on plane tickets purchased with your Chairman Card, each purchase point that you earn will be matched by a flight point. Therefore,
For Drugstore, Grocery, and Gas spending you earn...1 purchase point + 2 select purchase points + 3 matching flight points = 6 points per $
For Other spending you earn...1 purchase point + 1 matching flight point = 2 points per $.
For Thankyou Merchant spending you earn...what ever is listed on the ThankYou Merchant website as high as 10+ points per $. Unfortunately, my Chairman Card cannot be enrolled in TY Merchants due to a technical issue. Citibank did give me 10,000 points to compensate me for this issue (which were matched by flight points to give a total of 20,000 bonus points).

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If you travel frequently on plane tickets purchased with your Chairman Card, each purchase point that you earn will be matched by a flight point. Therefore,
For Drugstore, Grocery, and Gas spending you earn...1 purchase point + 2 select purchase points + 3 matching flight points = 6 points per $
For Other spending you earn...1 purchase point + 1 matching flight point = 2 points per $.
For Thankyou Merchant spending you earn...what ever is listed on the ThankYou Merchant website as high as 10+ points per $. Unfortunately, my Chairman Card cannot be enrolled in TY Merchants due to a technical issue. Citibank did give me 10,000 points to compensate me for this issue (which were matched by flight points to give a total of 20,000 bonus points).
This is an excellent breakdown of the point earning capability....I think that this is the only card where you can earn a ton of point by spending the least...

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If you travel frequently on plane tickets purchased with your Chairman Card, each purchase point that you earn will be matched by a flight point. Therefore,
For Drugstore, Grocery, and Gas spending you earn...1 purchase point + 2 select purchase points + 3 matching flight points = 6 points per $
For Other spending you earn...1 purchase point + 1 matching flight point = 2 points per $.
For Thankyou Merchant spending you earn...what ever is listed on the ThankYou Merchant website as high as 10+ points per $. Unfortunately, my Chairman Card cannot be enrolled in TY Merchants due to a technical issue. Citibank did give me 10,000 points to compensate me for this issue (which were matched by flight points to give a total of 20,000 bonus points).
I know it is not midnight, but when you do wake up will you tell me how to duplicate getting the 20k? You can pm if you like. ;)

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I know it is not midnight, but when you do wake up will you tell me how to duplicate getting the 20k? You can pm if you like. ;)
Ditto. :)

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Ditto. :)
Some cards that were converted from Premier Pass to Chairman (including mine) cannot be registered in the Thank You merchant program for some technical reason.
I called ThankYou about this once...they bounced me around for 30min
I called again and was told that Chairman was ineligible for the Thank You merchant program
I complained...they gave me 5,000 points (after flight point match this is 10,000)
They still did not fix it
I complained again...they gave me another 5,000 points (after flight point match this is 10,000)
They still did not fix it...they are due for another complaint :)
Basically whenever I have called Chairman to complain about anything they have handed out 5,000 points. The discussion goes something like this "I am calling beause of ... I chose a premium credit card because of superior customer service, the time that it saves me (which I can spend on FT), and the benefits. This is causing me to lose confidence in the program."

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Now I have just got to start feeling a loss of confidence.

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I hate to open up a can of worms again, but the original poster is semi-right and the same thing happened to me. A card that advertises itself as getting 1 point per mile and hides it's eligibilty in it's very "non-layman's" terms and conditions is scamming the public and making people sign on fo rthe card without knowing this first and by the time they catch on it's been 3 months.
Here are the terms from its web site....remember this is not even vaiguly mentioned anywhere else.
If you are approved for a Card Account, a ThankYouSM Network Member Account (“ThankYou Member Account”) will be set up for you. ThankYou Purchase Points post to your Card Account at the close of each billing cycle, and at that time are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account. ThankYou Flight Points post to your Card Account and will transfer at the close of each billing cycle to your ThankYou Member Account when we transfer, or have previously transferred, an equal or greater number of ThankYou Purchase Points. ThankYou Points are not eligible for redemption until they are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account.
Maybe I'm not a geniuse or I'm even plain stupid! but to hide it...yes hide it in "if you are approved for a card account" seems mostly misleading and purposely decieving people to sign on. expected from a smaller business...not from a major corp...others have been sued for less than this.
Just my 2 cents.

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I hate to open up a can of worms again, but the original poster is semi-right and the same thing happened to me. A card that advertises itself as getting 1 point per mile and hides it's eligibilty in it's very "non-layman's" terms and conditions is scamming the public and making people sign on fo rthe card without knowing this first and by the time they catch on it's been 3 months.
Here are the terms from its web site....remember this is not even vaiguly mentioned anywhere else.
If you are approved for a Card Account, a ThankYouSM Network Member Account (“ThankYou Member Account”) will be set up for you. ThankYou Purchase Points post to your Card Account at the close of each billing cycle, and at that time are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account. ThankYou Flight Points post to your Card Account and will transfer at the close of each billing cycle to your ThankYou Member Account when we transfer, or have previously transferred, an equal or greater number of ThankYou Purchase Points. ThankYou Points are not eligible for redemption until they are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account.
Maybe I'm not a geniuse or I'm even plain stupid! but to hide it...yes hide it in "if you are approved for a card account" seems mostly misleading and purposely decieving people to sign on. expected from a smaller business...not from a major corp...others have been sued for less than this.
Just my 2 cents.
There is no deception. There is no fraud. They are not even hiding anything. The terms and conditions are clear and unambiguous.
Who doesn't read the T&Cs when applying for a credit card? :confused:

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Maybe I'm not a geniuse or I'm even plain stupid! but to hide it...yes hide it in "if you are approved for a card account" seems mostly misleading and purposely decieving people to sign on. expected from a smaller business...not from a major corp...others have been sued for less than this.
Just my 2 cents.
What credit card company has been sued for less than this? (seriously curious)
There is no deception and no fraud in laying out the terms of an agreement. It's your fault for not reading the terms of a contract you agreed to.

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that is why they have a saying
"always read the SMALL PRINT"

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There is no deception. There is no fraud. They are not even hiding anything. The terms and conditions are clear and unambiguous.
Who doesn't read the T&Cs when applying for a credit card? :confused:
I agree. It is very clear from the terms and conditions how this card works. Further, the rewards value of the card is 2% or more per $ spent. That is a very good reward rate. (However, how it adds up on your monthly statement is not always clear.)
There are usually conditions to rewards:
- Discover Card - You can only redeem in $25 increments
- Citi Dividend - You can only redeem when you earn $50 or more
- Fidelity Visa Signature - You earn a 1.5% reward, but it is only redeemable in $50 increments
- Expiration dates, point transfer fees, etc.
In every case you must read the terms and conditions. It is a shame to devalue a good card publicly because you did not read the T&C. If you use the card for what it is you will realize that it provides good value.

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I know that this isn't supposed to happen, but I have the Diamond Preferred card as well as the PremierPass, and it has always credited by Diamond purchase points towards my PremierPass flight points.
With the Diamond card, they used to give 5pts dollar for groceries and gas. That isn't a permanent benefit anymore, but it is for the first 12 months, so if you sign up for the Diamond card, this loop hole may get you 10 cents a mile until you match your flight points. I think it may have worked for me because I consolidated the cards into my ThankYou account.
I also do agree with the other posters that this point matching req wasn't hidden.. I knew what I was getting into when I signed up.

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But at least you got 3 tickets out of it without getting caught...at first the Premier Pass CC did not take into acct flight points vs. actual spending...they have fixed this bug...now only $1 spent = 1 flight point .....
oh well....
Does it mean that PP will not match flight points with 15000 bonus points? Please tell me. THanks.

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Does it mean that PP will not match flight points with 15000 bonus points? Please tell me. THanks.
Flight points will match any points earned with the PP card (including bonus points). Flight points will not match TY points earned with other cards or a Citi checking account

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Sorry guys, if I have offended you by saying "IT’S A SCAM". If you read the original post it clearly stats that I am new to FT and that I am learning new tricks and trade. A simple explanation would have been enough.
Thanks to guys who answered my questions without being my dad. It's a mistake and I have learned a lesson.
One thing you might want to look into is the Citi AT&T Universal Card. You get 5 points for every dollar spent at grocery stores, gas stations, and drug stores. These points will go into the same ThankYou Network account as the points for your PremierPass Elite card. Using that AT&T Universal card won't transfer your flight points from the PremierPass Elite card into your ThankYou account, but it will ensure that you are either earning 2 (1 flight + 1 spending point for your PPE) or 5 points (on the Universal card) for every purchase you make at a store.
And if you drop the PremierPass Elite, you might want to just get the PremierPass. That has no annual fee, and you get one flight point transferred for every 3 you spend. Plus an extra 10,000 points for signing up. :D
Get as many as those ThankYou cards as you want. You get the signup bonus on all of them.

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One thing you might want to look into is the Citi AT&T Universal Card. You get 5 points for every dollar spent at grocery stores, gas stations, and drug stores. These points will go into the same ThankYou Network account as the points for your PremierPass Elite card. Using that AT&T Universal card won't transfer your flight points from the PremierPass Elite card into your ThankYou account, but it will ensure that you are either earning 2 (1 flight + 1 spending point for your PPE) or 5 points (on the Universal card) for every purchase you make at a store.
And if you drop the PremierPass Elite, you might want to just get the PremierPass. That has no annual fee, and you get one flight point transferred for every 3 you spend. Plus an extra 10,000 points for signing up. :D
Get as many as those ThankYou cards as you want. You get the signup bonus on all of them.
Actually, the AT&T Universal Rewards card has not offered 5X ThankYou Points at gas stations, grocery stores, and drugstores for about 6 months now for new applicants (old applicants are still grandfathered in). They only offer 5X points on AT&T purchases. I know you may not believe me because when you go to the AT&T Website the initial page describes 5X points at gas, grocery, drugstores, but when you click apply and then terms and conditions you will see that only AT&T purchases apply.

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Flight points will match any points earned with the PP card (including bonus points). Flight points will not match TY points earned with other cards or a Citi checking account
I am glad to hear that. Thank you for the reply. :)

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Actually, the AT&T Universal Rewards card has not offered 5X ThankYou Points at gas stations, grocery stores, and drugstores for about 6 months now for new applicants (old applicants are still grandfathered in). They only offer 5X points on AT&T purchases. I know you may not believe me because when you go to the AT&T Website the initial page describes 5X points at gas, grocery, drugstores, but when you click apply and then terms and conditions you will see that only AT&T purchases apply.
Really? That's what I get for being busy and not keeping up with all of this. Looks like I beat them restricting that one by a few weeks or days. :D

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As stated before, this is not a SCAM. However I consider this to be very unpolite and in my case, unacceptable.
If you carefully read the Terms and Conditions, you will find the following:
If you are approved for a Card Account, a ThankYouSM Network Member Account (“ThankYou Member Account”) will be set up for you. ThankYou Purchase Points post to your Card Account at the close of each billing cycle, and at that time are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account. ThankYou Flight Points post to your Card Account and will transfer at the close of each billing cycle to your ThankYou Member Account when we transfer, or have previously transferred, an equal or greater number of ThankYou Purchase Points. ThankYou Points are not eligible for redemption until they are transferred to your ThankYou Member Account.
That means what at this point we all know, no flight points if you don't spend (almost) the same amount in $$. You can fast forward that by buying 2X goods/services, however it's still spending a lot of $$.
The problem I find here is they don't expose that restriction in a straight forward manner. Even more, they mask it under "We will set-up a TY account" title and then mix Thank You purchase points with Thank You Points and Thank You flight points. Very confusing. When you write a paragraph, the first words are the most important and should be explained or substantiated by the rest of the text.
More over, this is way the most frequent deception on this card, and this cap is not stated in the FAQ.
There's anything free, read the T&C. Everyone knows that there's anything so good, but this is also masked when they correctly advertise the 200k points cap. Very clever. They didn't forget about anything.
I consider that they commited this on purpose. I think they are hiding this cap in a premeditated way.
Many people felt into this card without understanding this because it is not clear. If -many- people feels bad about this, then I think this should be considered deceptive marketing. I'd wonder how many cardmembers asked for a refund.
Consider me a stupid, but however I read the Terms and Conds; I also felt in this card without understanding this.
This is just my opinion. I'm not a lawyer and this is not an advice. Just what I think.
I won't forget. I will probably stay out from citicards for a long period of time.
PS: This is a card for travelers, however they charge 3% as a commision for goods purchased out of the country. AMEX charges 2%. Do the math.

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as for the foreign exchange, my understanding is amex uses higher exchange rates, so the TOTAL cost to you is about 3%, or same as everyone else. they just make it look like its lower by lowering the "commission" and raising the "exchange rate"

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as for the foreign exchange, my understanding is amex uses higher exchange rates, so the TOTAL cost to you is about 3%, or same as everyone else. they just make it look like its lower by lowering the "commission" and raising the "exchange rate"
I'll check and get back to the forum with that data.

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Something that just worked great for me when I was in Grand Cayman...they charged me in USD instead of GCD -- so I bypassed the 3% conversion fee from Citibank...charged everything on m crad...earned a hell of a lot points,....
I will try that when I am in other places and see if ther merchant can charge me in USD instead of local currency and let us see what happens....

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example of exchange rates from my last trip >
7/21 eu
atm 1.26
amex 1.29
7/25 gbp
atm 1.85
amex 1.89

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Citibank PremierPass Elite full statement closing dec/15/2006:
11/27 AEROMEXICO CAPITAL FEDER ARG AR ,4,239.40 ARGENTINE PESO Standard Purch 1,388.83
11/27 Interbank exchange 1USD=3.078
Citibank convertion 1USD=3.052 (-0.85%)

11/28 GRUPO TACA CAPITAL FEDER ARG AR ,2,063.00 ARGENTINE PESO Standard Purch 675.84
11/28 Interbank exchange 1USD=3.8
Citibank convertion 1USD=3.052 (-0.91%)
12/15 12/15 00000000 PURCHASES*FINANCE CHARGE*FOREIGN TRANS Standard Purch 61.93
3% of $2064,67 = $61.94
According to Yahoo Finance December 15 (closing date) interbank exchange rate was 3.058. As is obvious by looking at the previous differences, Citibank exchange rate is applied on the closing date. Citibank applied 3.052 which is 0.2% less than interbank reported by Yahoo.
Citibank then charged 3% "Foreing Trans". Although it says "standard purch" I did not get any TY points for that charge.
Citibank totals a consistent 3.2% commision on the exchange rate.
American Express Purchases
Here we don't need the complete statement because they don't add a finance charge at the end.
11/16/06 MXP 599.00 USD56.53
RESTAURANTE CASA MANDARINA (CUERNAVACA)
11/15 Interbank Exchange Rate 1USD=10.8459
AMEX exchange rate 1USD=10.5961 (-2,30%)
12/11/06 MXP 1,004.40 USD94.56
F INN ACAPULCO ACAPULCO GUERRERO
11/11 Interbank Exchange Rate 1USD=10.8422
AMEX exchange rate 1USD=10.6218 (-2,03%)
As per what they say in the statement and we can see here, AMEX makes the conversion on the date they process the charge.
In the statement there's a specific note stating they make the conversion on the date the charge is processed by them or their agents (I'm not sure if that the same as "posted"). It also says that the exchange rate is the upper value published by any gov agency or the interbank exchange rate taken from "trusted" sources (not yahoo :)) on the day or the day before the conversion, incrementing it by 2%.
You get MR points for this commision.
AMEX totals a non-consistent 2.17% commision on the exchange rate. It's probably 2% depending on the rate sources.
CONCLUSION
Neither AMEX nor Citibank charge commision for purchases in USD out of the United States. Verified on transactions in Ecuador and Panama.
AMEX uses a conversion rate that you know and understand when you make your purchase. In some unstable countries, Citibank can surprise you with a huge price increment because they will convert it at the closing date instead of the date of purchase.
AMEX charges 2.15% commision over the rate while Citibank charges 3.2%. Even if Citibank gives you 2 TY points for every USD spent out of the country (supposing you have enough flight miles); that extra point value is $0.01 per each dollar and there's the 1% difference.
AMEX is far better for transactions out-of-the country.
You get points for the commisions.
I would use AMEX out of the US and the Citibank PPass in the US. The only reason I think I can use Citibank PPass outside the US is if I want to take advantage of the fixed points business class tickets.

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Sorry, doble clicked

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Oops, I did it again! (was very slow and hit space)

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The best option is to use neither Amex nor Citi for non-USD purchases. There are 0% fx cards out there (see the big thread in MilesBuzz or the Wiki entry). I personally don't trust Amex. Generally they're in the 2.25% range but every once in a while I'll see a 5% or something like that (always in a non-major foreign currency).

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Something that just worked great for me when I was in Grand Cayman...they charged me in USD instead of GCD -- so I bypassed the 3% conversion fee from Citibank...charged everything on m crad...earned a hell of a lot points,....
I will try that when I am in other places and see if ther merchant can charge me in USD instead of local currency and let us see what happens....
Watch out! Some companies will charge you the foreign exchange fee even if you charge in USD. Effectively you will pay for exchange twice!

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The best option is to use neither Amex nor Citi for non-USD purchases. There are 0% fx cards out there (see the big thread in MilesBuzz or the Wiki entry). I personally don't trust Amex. Generally they're in the 2.25% range but every once in a while I'll see a 5% or something like that (always in a non-major foreign currency).
I second this. Most, if not all Capital One cards charge 0% with fair wholesale forex rates. Many credit unions charge only 1%. I haven't paid more than wholesale on a credit card in quite some time.

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I second this. Most, if not all Chase cards charge 0% with fair wholesale forex rates. Many credit unions charge only 1%. I haven't paid more than wholesale on a credit card in quite some time.
Chase also charges 3%. At least for the Continental Airlines co-branded mastercard:
International Transactions: 3% of the U.S. dollar amount of the transaction, whether originally made in U.S. dollars or converted from a foreign currency.
http://www.chase.com/ccp/jsps/cards/dynapp_popup.jsp?type=terms&sourcecode=64GZ
Cheers

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Chase also charges 3%. At least for the Continental Airlines co-branded mastercard:
International Transactions: 3% of the U.S. dollar amount of the transaction, whether originally made in U.S. dollars or converted from a foreign currency.
http://www.chase.com/ccp/jsps/cards/dynapp_popup.jsp?type=terms&sourcecode=64GZ
Cheers
Well then, apparently not "all." Still, "most," including my plain old Capital One No Hassle Card, which I keep and use solely for this purpose. Worth getting one if you do any international traveling.

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The responses seem to be off topic at this point.
From post #36 thru #47, foreign currency exchange rates were the focus. However, we already have an ongoing thread on that topic: Best card for foreign exchange? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401958). IIRC, most people are not happy about Amex exchange rates. IMHO, this line of discussion belongs there.
Can we please move back to OP's original inquiry and discussion about Premier Pass Elite/TY points? I am considering getting a new CC since Chase is changing their terms to strickly no sign-up bonus miles. I haven't paid any attention to TY points until very recently. Reading this thread helped me quite a bit in terms of learning about TY points before it got "off-road."
Thank You, even though I can't give out TY points. :p

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The responses seem to be off topic at this point.
From post #36 thru #47, foreign currency exchange rates were the focus. However, we already have an ongoing thread on that topic: Best card for foreign exchange? (http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=401958). IIRC, most people are not happy about Amex exchange rates. IMHO, this line of discussion belongs there.
Can we please move back to OP's original inquiry and discussion about Premier Pass Elite/TY points? I am considering getting a new CC since Chase is changing their terms to strickly no sign-up bonus miles. I haven't paid any attention to TY points until very recently. Reading this thread helped me quite a bit in terms of learning about TY points before it got "off-road."
Thank You, even though I can't give out TY points. :p
TY is a good program. The pros are:
1. Many cards can earn 2+ points per dollar spent. You can get a $100 gift card for 10,000 points. Thus, you are often getting 2% or more return for each dollar spent.
2. PP Elite earns 2 points per $ for regular spending and 4 points per $ for select spending, if you include the matching flight points. This is a pretty good return. If you keep flying you will always earn 2% plus!
3. You can have multiple cards and tailor your spending to the benefits of the card, e.g. Citi Professional earns 3pts for restaurants, car rentals, etc.
4. You can get decent coach tickets with your points. Those tickets earn miles on the airline.
The cons are:
1. You cannot convert points to miles in another program.
2. Merchandise rewards are limited and expensive.
I have MR, Diners, TY, and Merrill+ rewards. I personally like TY the best. However, I use my TY points for gift cards because I earn plenty of hotel and airline points elsewhere.

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TY is a good program. The pros are:
3. You can have multiple cards and tailor your spending to the benefits of the card, e.g. Citi Professional earns 3pts for restaurants, car rentals, etc.
4. You can get decent coach tickets with your points. Those tickets earn miles on the airline.
The cons are:
1. You cannot convert points to miles in another program.
2. Merchandise rewards are limited and expensive.
Another HUGE con is, you can not collect regular points with non PremierPass cards towards the Premier Pass account. So, even if you spend around $1,000 - 2,000 a month you still will be waiting around 10 month in order to redeem those 15k flight points.
Pro is you don't have to have AAdvantage Citi Card/USAirways/Alaska etc... since this card posts all the flight points to those FF programs and to TY network.
Looks like this card is good only for those who fly often anough to collect 100 000 flight points in an year and do spend at least 3k to 5k a month.

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Another HUGE con is, you can not collect regular points with non PremierPass cards towards the Premier Pass account. So, even if you spend around $1,000 - 2,000 a month you still will be waiting around 10 month in order to redeem those 15k flight points.
Pro is you don't have to have AAdvantage Citi Card/USAirways/Alaska etc... since this card posts all the flight points to those FF programs and to TY network.
Looks like this card is good only for those who fly often anough to collect 100 000 flight points in an year and do spend at least 3k to 5k a month.
Hmmm.... Suppose you build up around 100,000 flight points on your PP Elite Card. The next $100,000 that you spend will earn 2 points per $. I am in that situation. It is not a bad scenario.

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why go through this again? its a fine program, but different people want different things. thank you network really has no appeal to me personally.

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I'd have to add a vote to the "deceptive" category, and I'm a lawyer. When I signed up for this card, I did know what I was getting into because I read everything closely, but the terms are certainly more hidden than most "hidden" terms in other cc offers. Just look at the ad link on top of this very page at this moment (not to mention all of the "funny" tv commercials, which never suggests that all points from these cards are unequal):
http://citi.bridgetrack.com/USC/05/PremierPass/Family/default.htm?app=UNSOL&sc=4WNIW1S5&m=8FL4316H40W&langId=EN&siteId=CB&B=A&BT_TX=1&ProspectID=E993CB8B0BE547ED813C4BEFB01FFF88#
Anyway, this card has been worth it for me b/c of the bonus points, but I just don't think I'm going to keep it.

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yeah it ain't in the fine print.
But as a lawyer you should know that cc cos do much worse than fail to provide full disclosure on their rewards programs.
Check out the movie Bull worth.
sadly it is the banks and insurance companies that have legislators in their hip pocket.
Its only in Jimmy Stewart's naive imagination that they represent the . And even this misconception is corrected as soon as he shows up in DC

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I second this. Most, if not all Chase cards charge 0% with fair wholesale forex rates. Many credit unions charge only 1%. I haven't paid more than wholesale on a credit card in quite some time.
This is wrong. I see the reason for the confusion: I meant Capital One, not Chase. The original posts have been fixed. Sorry for the error!

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Looks like this card is good only for those who fly often anough to collect 100 000 flight points in an year and do spend at least 3k to 5k a month.
you dont need to fly 100k, you can earn flight points on other people's travel so long you bought their tix with their card. For many of us that we log much more than 100k BIS and spend far more than $100k/yr this card is a no brainer, PERIOD.
(ive done enough reading on this card my head is about to explode!)

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why go through this again? its a fine program, but different people want different things. thank you network really has no appeal to me personally.
then why do you keep posting in the following threads:
Premier Pass
Chairman
New Chairman
are you just trying to get your post count up? you can pad your post count int he AMEX threads....

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4. You can get decent coach tickets with your points. Those tickets earn miles on the airline.
Does this only work with the tickets you book on thankyou network via expedia? How about the fixed option like for 25K points you can get a RT ticket in US. Do those earn FF miles and upgrades as well?
Can anyone confirm? What does it say on the e-receipt? Any UA flyers here?

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Does this only work with the tickets you book on thankyou network via expedia? How about the fixed option like for 25K points you can get a RT ticket in US. Do those earn FF miles and upgrades as well?
Can anyone confirm? What does it say on the e-receipt? Any UA flyers here?
absolutely it works with the fixed-point option - that's the whole value of the program. Once the ticket is purchased, it looks to your airline for all practical purposes like you paid cash. You earn EQMs, EQSs, banked miles, upgrades, and whatever else UA throws your way.

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Hello. I am new to this forum and found it while researching the Citi PP Elite card. I have already applied for it and can't wait to start using it! I got lucky and found the link to the offer with the annual fee waived. That same link now redirects to a different URL, so the offer is no longer there.
While reading various threads about the PP Elite, I noticed several complaints about the Flight Points redemption rules. Please correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the PP card the only credit card to offer such points? Do any other CC companies give you flight points - redeemable on ANY airline - for the miles you fly, on top of the points earned for purchasing the ticket(s) with your CC?
If not, why would anyone complain about the PP's redemption rules?
For my spending and travel habits, the Citibank "ThankYou Network" was the most appealing. I currently have a CapitalOne MilesOne card for my business and a United Mileage Plus Visa for everything else, each earning separate points. Now, I can get a CitiBusiness PremierPass and a PremierPass Elite and combine points earned on the same ThankYou account. Who else offers this kind of flexibility? Aren't the Flight Points just icing on the cake?
P.S. No, I am not affiliated with Citibank. I just like what they offer :)

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... why would anyone complain about the PP's redemption rules?
Complaints occur because Citi does a poor job of explaining the restrictions on redeeming Flight Points. In their advertising for the Premier Pass card they mention that you cannot earn more than 200,000 Thank You points per year and that no more than 100,000 of these can be Flight Points, but only after you receive the card may you realize that Flight Points are not redeemable until matched by Purchase Points. This doesn't mean that the program is poor, but it does mean that people receive the card, buy some airline tickets, think they have sufficient points to redeem for, say, an award flight only to discover that most of the Flight Points are unredeemable pending other transactions.
The other problem is that Citi has tweaked the Thank You program several times without notice, completely revamping the airline ticket award redemption process. This type of uncertainty makes it uncomfortable to accumulate points for an award that requires a substantial amount of spending.

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This type of uncertainty makes it uncomfortable to accumulate points for an award that requires a substantial amount of spending.
This "substantial amount" you refer to only applies to Flight Points redemption, right? No one else offers these Flight Points, and if you took them out of the equation, the ThankYou Network still remains appealing compared to other programs, yes or no?

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...Flight Points, and if you took them out of the equation, the ThankYou Network still remains appealing compared to other programs, yes or no?
No, the Flight Points make Thank You competitive with airline programs.
For example, a business class trip from USA to Europe requires 100,000 or fewer miles in most airline frequent flyer programs, but requires 165,000 Thank You points using the Fixed Flight option. (It would require more using the Variable Flight option.)
To earn 100,000 miles using the Starwood Preferred Guest credit card requires $80,000 spending. $80,000 charged on Premier Pass would not generate 165,000 Thank You points if it were not for the Flight Points.
There are pros and cons to redeeming Thank You points versus airline miles for a specific trip, but without the Flight Points Thank You wouldn't even be in the game for this type of award. On the other hand, if you are primarily thinking in terms of gift card redemptions the Flight Points are a genuine bonus.

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No, the Flight Points make Thank You competitive with airline programs.
For example, a business class trip from USA to Europe requires 100,000 or fewer miles in most airline frequent flyer programs, but requires 165,000 Thank You points using the Fixed Flight option. (It would require more using the Variable Flight option.)
To earn 100,000 miles using the Starwood Preferred Guest credit card requires $80,000 spending. $80,000 charged on Premier Pass would not generate 165,000 Thank You points if it were not for the Flight Points.
There are pros and cons to redeeming Thank You points versus airline miles for a specific trip, but without the Flight Points Thank You wouldn't even be in the game for this type of award. On the other hand, if you are primarily thinking in terms of gift card redemptions the Flight Points are a genuine bonus.
100K miles or fewer is really misleading as on most 3 class service airlines require less than 100K miles. Ie UAL and most Star members are 80K, AA and most One World Members are 90K.
Only Airlines that tend to charge 100K miles for bussiness class tickets are airlines that only offer 2 class service like Delta, US Airways, Virgin Atlantic etc.
Btw Citibank tries to route you when ever possible via AA as Citibank biggest partner is AA if AA does not offer the route they tend to go with US carriers in general so it could be possible you ended up getting routed via UAL who awards is even cheaper than AA. Airline awards allows open Jaw tickets and layovers while Citibank does not. Citibank awards also require sat night stay while airlines awards do not.
PPE is a great card for people who fly coach and only redem awards for coach travel because you can earn a coach ticket with as little as $12.5k in purchases vs $20K on starwood or $25K on most direct airlines cards.

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PPE is a great card for people who fly coach and only redem awards for coach travel because you can earn a coach ticket with as little as $12.5k in purchases vs $20K on starwood or $25K on most direct airlines cards.
Doubly so for those who redeem for coach around peak travel times. Since the redemption rate is fixed as long as you are booking 14 days out with the saturday night stay, it's possible to book trips on holiday weekends that are blacked out by the airlines' FF programs and quite expensive to pay for in cash. See the numerous examples of >2c/point redemptions in the big thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529921

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Doubly so for those who redeem for coach around peak travel times. Since the redemption rate is fixed as long as you are booking 14 days out with the saturday night stay, it's possible to book trips on holiday weekends that are blacked out by the airlines' FF programs and quite expensive to pay for in cash. See the numerous examples of >2c/point redemptions in the big thread:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/showthread.php?t=529921
and triply so for those who relish the EQMs, banked miles, upgrades, and other perks accrued with PAID travel, which is how TY Points tickets look to the airline. If you fly exactly 50,000 miles per year, you'll want your free flights to earn EQMs so you can maintain your status. TY Points help you do that, whereas *points, UA miles, NW miles etc do not.

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...and triply so for those who relish the EQMs, banked miles, upgrades, and other perks accrued with PAID travel...
Indeed, but the question is would you still use a Thank You Rewards card if there were no Flight Points and you earned only one point per dollar?

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Indeed, but the question is would you still use a Thank You Rewards card if there were no Flight Points and you earned only one point per dollar?
NO !!!!
BTW -- I know there were some questions about TY flight points at the end/start of a yr and how they credited...I had this problem come up as I have approx 40000 flight points to be credited this month with only 17k in spending from Jan 2007....
I called Chairman and they said that they would be held until you spend that much, so I aksed the CSR to look at the lifetime point total which shows way over on my purchase points, so he credited all 40k flight points for this month...
Also, points do not EXPIRE...as long as there is activity on the card...

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Indeed, but the question is would you still use a Thank You Rewards card if there were no Flight Points and you earned only one point per dollar?
I would certainly use my AT&T Universal Card which rewards 5% on everyday spending.
I would use my Citi Professional for 3% at restaurants.
Since TY points are worth 1.5-2 cents each, those cards give me a net of 4.5-10 cents back per dollar spent.
As for the Citi Premier Pass, even without the flight points I'd consider myself earning the equivalent of 1.5-2% cash back. So yes, I probably still would use it. I might use the SPG Amex a little more, just to have "reward diversity." But I wouldn't use the SPG Amex to send points to my airline accounts, because I don't need the miles - like most of us on FT, I have many hundreds of thousands of airline miles that I never redeem.
To me, the matching flight points with PPElite makes them the top program for my needs.

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To earn 100,000 miles using the Starwood Preferred Guest credit card requires $80,000 spending. $80,000 charged on Premier Pass would not generate 165,000 Thank You points if it were not for the Flight Points.
.
And east coasters could get a business class tix on BA or AA via CX Asia miles for $50,000 spend on *wood AX.
Its the other bonus points , in addition to the flight points that make it somewhat attractive. you need to be able to earn at GREATER than 200% to keep the program attractive.
AND its only attractive so long as BUSINESS CLASS FIXED POINTS OPTIONS, remain available. If Citi does away with this then we are all stuck with GAP gift certificates instead of international premium cabin travel:td:

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BTW -- I know there were some questions about TY flight points at the end/start of a yr and how they credited...I had this problem come up as I have approx 40000 flight points to be credited this month with only 17k in spending from Jan 2007....
I called Chairman and they said that they would be held until you spend that much, so I asked the CSR to look at the lifetime point total which shows way over on my purchase points, so he credited all 40k flight points for this month...
Also, points do not EXPIRE...as long as there is activity on the card...
I find this very very disconcerting and confusing.
I am honestly confused.
How can you say flight points don't expire??
I had no idea that you had to offset them in the same calendar year.
This is absurd in addition to Citi's other deceptive marketing practices.
You HAD to call and individually plead your case because your monthly spend was below your monthly flight points? :td:
This should be of no relevance!!:td:
You had a built up surplus of purchase points. Your $$$ points are greater than your FLIGHT points. Yet according to Citi you are not entitled to your flight points being credited!!!:td: :td:
But an exception was made for you because you are a good customer and were eagled eyed enough to call!!!!
And you brag that this is good Chairman service?:rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Anaggie , you are somewhat of a corporate apologist for CITI. ya ought to be on their P.R. Dept. payroll:D
IT seems to me that from your post that the official policy is a calender year flight point offset policy. IT's a yearly SPEND IT OR LOSE IT Policy.
I thought that flight points were earned based on you having spent an equal amount.
Am I missing something here??
Maybe we need a NEW thread title CITI SCAM --UNDISCLOSED ANNUAL EXPIRATION OF FLIGHT POINTS ELIGABLE FOR CONVERSION.
And you act like Citi is great for unscrewing you after you got an individual exception made. Perhaps they should not have screwed you to begin with!!
Anaggie, u do realize that now u need 23K in new spend before u get flight points converted immediately to redeemable TY points?
You were 'loaned' based on anticipated future spending upon your past spend being analyzed. From my read you will NOT get 1 for 1.

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IT seems to me that from your post that the official policy is a calender year flight point offset policy. IT's a yearly SPEND IT OR LOSE IT Policy.
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I'm going to disregard all the frantic screaming and yelling in your thread and focus on the factual inaccuracies instead.
There is no yearly spend it or lose it policy. You must keep your Thank You Point network account active, but that is completely separate from losing your flight points. Flight points 'rest' in your Chairman (or PP Elite) account indefinitely until they are matched by flight points. I know this from my own experience. What happened to anaggie was a simple error on Chairman's part in transferring the flight points to his TY point account. He called and got it resolved.
You are making something out of nothing.

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Let's wait to hear from Anaggie. I'll allow for the possibility that I'm making something of nothing. I was wrong once or twice. I'd certainly allow for the possibilty that this is perhaps the third time;)

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Let's wait to hear from Anaggie. I'll allow for the possibility that I'm making something of nothing. I was wrong once or twice. I'd certainly allow for the possibilty that this is perhaps the third time;)
Fair enough. BTW, I think I overstated things by saying "indefinitely." I think it is actually 3 years. Don't know because I use my cards every day - but for those who don't a quick look through the T&Cs should address this.

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Quick question-as I could not find it with the search or in this forum. Are the flight miles actual miles flown or as in short hops will I get 500 flights miles posted when I fly Indy to Chicago? I wanted to check since the T &C were ambiguous. Thanks.

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Actual miles, no minimum.

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[QUOTE I wanted to check since the T &C were ambiguous. Thanks.[/QUOTE]
Yep, it certainly is.:mad:
this is a program and conept frought with ambiguity and 'maybes'.
by the time we accure enough ty points for two J tixs using fixed flight options, who knows if fixed flights in premium cabinwill still be offered?
I think that the adage, 'smoke em , if you got them" applies here.
There is something to be said for a mature program, ala AAvantage.
of course they can change the program , but I have often bought a rev. tix. in order to 'save' my AA miles for a better value redemption.
I ain't doing this with TY!
First decent value fixed flight redemption, I will cash in.

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ok...so maybe "writetorich" misunderstood my post....
Flight points are held in your Chairman as long as you keep it active.....now since this was a JAN statement and these flight were to be in Jan...so one would actually get the flight points credit 6-8 weeks after the flight has commenced.
Bu since I am a "GREAT DEADBEAT"....they will credit approx 40k flight points this month because of my surplus I have built up....
So, cust service from Chairman is still good beause I am getting the flight points by end of FEB instead of April....

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[QUOTE I wanted to check since the T &C were ambiguous. Thanks.
Yep, it certainly is.:mad:
For old dogs...yes...for young new pups...easy to undertand and fuigure out :cool: :cool:
this is a program and conept frought with ambiguity and 'maybes'.
no it is not....read the fine print...and ask questions
by the time we accure enough ty points for two J tixs using fixed flight options, who knows if fixed flights in premium cabinwill still be offered?
I have been with this program since OCT 2004 -- no devaluation...and premium class tickets are still being offered
I think that the adage, 'smoke em , if you got them" applies here.
There is something to be said for a mature program, ala AAvantage.
of course they can change the program , but I have often bought a rev. tix. in order to 'save' my AA miles for a better value redemption.
I ain't doing this with TY!
First decent value fixed flight redemption, I will cash in.[/QUOTE]
There are some very good values out there..just try not to end up with a closet full of GAP sweaters....:cool: :cool:

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ok...so maybe "writetorich" misunderstood my post........
Rereading post #68 and post #78 I still don't understand what the customer service agent did or why. Did he credit Flight Points for flights not yet flown, or did he convert Flight Points to redeemable Thank You Points before you matched them with Purchase Points, or both, or something else :confused: ?

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Rereading post #68 and post #78 I still don't understand what the customer service agent did or why. Did he credit Flight Points for flights not yet flown, or did he convert Flight Points to redeemable Thank You Points before you matched them with Purchase Points, or both, or something else :confused: ?
no...what I did was try to get the points one statement early... since the flights were in January, they would have posted to my acct till March...but they will post to my acct in Feb even if the purchase points are not there since my "Lifetime" purchase points exceed the lifetime flight points.....
now...the next question is "what are lifetime points"...these are your points you have accumulated in your entire history...which you can use to credit flight points early as long as you are a "Great deadbeat client".....

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no...what I did was try to get the points one statement early... since the flights were in January, they would have posted to my acct till March...but they will post to my acct in Feb even if the purchase points are not there since my "Lifetime" purchase points exceed the lifetime flight points.....
now...the next question is "what are lifetime points"...these are your points you have accumulated in your entire history...which you can use to credit flight points early as long as you are a "Great deadbeat client".....
there aren't any restrictions on this. Flight points should post as long as there are lifetime purchase/bonus/select points to match them. In 2006 I had purchase points from 2005 "carry over' and help new flight points be transferred. I don't think you really got an advance; I think you got what you were owed and just had to point that out to them.

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there aren't any restrictions on this. Flight points should post as long as there are lifetime purchase/bonus/select points to match them. In 2006 I had purchase points from 2005 "carry over' and help new flight points be transferred. I don't think you really got an advance; I think you got what you were owed and just had to point that out to them.
exactly !!! You have to pooint it out to them otherwisae they will not give it to you...like with all upgrades and so forth...not really a Chairman/Citi issue....
Unless you ask for your upgrade at the hotel, they are not going to give it to you....