Question
Hi all! First post, but have been lurking for a while. Great forum!
I'm trying to decide on a new card to concentrate my spending on. Currently use an AMEX Blue Cash, but have been considering either the PP Elite or the SPG Plat. Although a lot has been written on these two cards, I haven't found a direct comparison of the two. My summary of the two:
Citi's PP Elite:
+ 15,000 bonus points for signing up
+ Annual fee waiver (via CitiGold)
+ effective 2x points assuming you fly occasionally
+ everyday purchases bonus points
+ Generally appears to be easier to accumulate greater amount of TY points
+ pool TY points if you have other Citi products (ie banking)
- BUT the major issue with this card is that one can't transfer points to airline FF programs
AMEX's SPG Plat:
+ 6,000 bonus points + add'l up to 6,000 if you stay at SPG in the first year (via the link at FW forums)
+ effective 1.25x SPG points to FF transfer
+ REAL FF points (for upgrades, etc)
- effective 1x points accumulation unless card holder stays at SPG properties
- hit or miss w/ annual fee waiver
? card holder has automatic Preferred Plus status with SPG
Also, I'm currently at SPG Gold status, but no longer travel. If I get the SPG Plat card, will I remain at SPGGold as long as I have the AMEX?
Answer
it depends on your travel patterns.
If you fly a lot and want free coach flights then the Premier Pass Elite is a better deal.
If you stay at a lot of Starwoods but don't fly much and want your own airline miles or free hotel stays, then SPG Amex is a better deal.
I own both cards and value TY points at 1.5-2 cents each, meaning an effective 3-4% (or even more) return per dollar spent (with the flight points). SPG points are typically valued around 2.5 cents each. So for many people I think TY Points are a better deal - of course, having both is the best!
welcome to Flyer Talk!
Answer
I... value TY points at 1.5-2 cents each
Could you expand on this? I'm new to TY points and trying to figure out which of my credit cards to make primary--AMEX Platinum membership rewards, AMEX Costco platinum w. 1-2-3% cash back, Citi Chairman, or maybe a UA card (which I'd have to apply for).
I used to favor Membership rewards, until UA became my primary airline. Then I started using the Costco card, since most of my spending is travel (2%) and restaurants (3%). Since joining flyertalk, though, I've been thinking maybe I should be accumulating points, miles, or something more easily convertible to travel. So if a TY spend point is worth 3-4 cents (assuming infinite flight points), maybe I should switch to Chairman for all but restaurants.
Answer
My latest strategy is to use Chairman for flights/gas/groceries/pharmacy and then Amex SPG for everything else.
Starpoints still have more bang for the buck for me (all my personal travel is international).
You can apply for the PremierPass Elite card and then buy 3 transcons plane tickets. That's an easy $225 right there (15K signup points + 15K flight points - $75 fee). You can then upgrade to Chairman if you need the lounge access ($400/year), continue to use it, or close it.
The PremierPass cards are great, as long as you buy some plane tickets, hopefully not short haul.
Answer
[QUOTE=canuck_in_pa]
You can apply for the PremierPass Elite card and then buy 3 transcons plane tickets. That's an easy $225 right there (15K signup points + 15K flight points - $75 fee). QUOTE]
even better, you have 30k TY points valid for any domestic or Canada flight; you can certainly make that worth $400-$500; plus a leftover $50 gift card, for a net worth of $450-$550 (-$75 = $375-$475)
Here is how I value TY Points:
25k TY Points buys you any domestic or Canada travel. Depending on where you live, that can be worth $500 (2 cents per point).
or
50k TY Points can buy you Europe travel in coach. In peak season, that can be worth $1000-$1200 (2-2.4 cents per point)
or
60k TY Points can buy you Asia travel in coach. Again, about $1000-$1200 per ticket - nearly 2 cents per point.
Assuming you have unlimited flight points to contribute to the cause, it only takes $12,500 worth of spending to earn 25k TY points - a $500 ticket for $12,500 spend, or an effective 4% back. This excludes the possibilities of bonus spending, ie with everyday purchases or a Universal Card.
Answer
[QUOTE=canuck_in_pa]
25k TY Points buys you any domestic or Canada travel...
50k TY Points can buy you Europe travel in coach...
60k TY Points can buy you Asia travel in coach...
Agree with your calculations, if these numbers work out. Have you actually gotten tickets at these levels? I noticed the thankyounetwork.com website says "starting at..." for all these awards, which makes me wonder if in practice it actually costs more.
This web page also lists some awards:
http://www.citibank.com/us/cards/cardserv/premierpass/travel-sample.htm
For example they list 25K for restricted, and 50K for unrestricted. So the question is whether restricted just means Saturday night stay or something, or if it's like those elusive frequent flyer "saver" awards that never seem to be available when you want them.
Other related question--do I need to use Citibank's travel agent to get the flight points, or will I get them if I book on-line. (I like the lack of travel agent fee and 1K on-line booking bonus from united.com.)
Answer
<<automatic Preferred Plus status with SPG... I'm currently at SPG Gold status, but no longer travel. If I get the SPG Plat card, will I remain at SPGGold as long as I have the AMEX?>>
No "Preferred Plus" is a level lower than "Gold" which includes many of the same benefits but not, for example, the extra point per dollar spent at SPG properties.
dennis
Answer
<<automatic Preferred Plus status with SPG... I'm currently at SPG Gold status, but no longer travel. If I get the SPG Plat card, will I remain at SPGGold as long as I have the AMEX?>>
No "Preferred Plus" is a level lower than "Gold" which includes many of the same benefits but not, for example, the extra point per dollar spent at SPG properties.
It is worthwhile to note that that's pretty much the only benefit you do lose. You get the same room upgrades (theoretically) and 4PM checkout as Golds. So it's actually quite valuable status-wise for $30/yr. Between that and the free yearly SPG50, the card more than pays for itself even if you don't charge anything, as long as you stay at Starwood properties occasionally.
I've barely touched my SPG card so far this year due to double DL and double MR promos.
Answer
[QUOTE=psychtobe]
Agree with your calculations, if these numbers work out. Have you actually gotten tickets at these levels? ...So the question is whether restricted just means Saturday night stay or something, or if it's like those elusive frequent flyer "saver" awards that never seem to be available when you want them.
Other related question--do I need to use Citibank's travel agent to get the flight points, or will I get them if I book on-line. (I like the lack of travel agent fee and 1K on-line booking bonus from united.com.)
to your first question: absolutely. These are nothing like frequent flyer programs; these are tickets purchased for you at prevailing prices by the Citi TY Network. Naturally, that doesn't mean you can have any flight you want - but check out the other thread in this forum for some examples of what and how people have gotten.
to your second question: you get the flight points for any travel paid with the PP card - even if part of a vacation package which does not earn miles in your own program, or a consolidator fare which is not eligible to earn miles. If PP Elite doesn't automatically give you the points, just fax in your boarding passes and you'll get them.
There is much more information about this in the other threads in this forum, including the one about "Citi Premier Pass Elite recommendation."
Answer
Could you expand on this? I'm new to TY points and trying to figure out which of my credit cards to make primary--AMEX Platinum membership rewards, AMEX Costco platinum w. 1-2-3% cash back, Citi Chairman, or maybe a UA card (which I'd have to apply for).
I used to favor Membership rewards, until UA became my primary airline. Then I started using the Costco card, since most of my spending is travel (2%) and restaurants (3%). Since joining flyertalk, though, I've been thinking maybe I should be accumulating points, miles, or something more easily convertible to travel. So if a TY spend point is worth 3-4 cents (assuming infinite flight points), maybe I should switch to Chairman for all but restaurants.
Its not that a TY spend point is worth 3-4 cents. Its that when you spend $1 on your Chairman card you get 2-4 pts (including a the matching flight point). Starwood effectively gives you 1.25 points per $ assuming that you convert 20k pts to airline miles. This means the Chairman/PP Elite has a higher POINT yield. (The value of a point appears to be similar, so the Chairman/PP Elite has a higher VALUE yield as well.) However, the Chairman is a bit restrictive, i.e. no conversion to airline miles. If you plan on purchasing airline ticket upgrades with flight points. This is a major limitation.
Answer
Its not that a TY spend point is worth 3-4 cents. Its that when you spend $1 on your Chairman card you get 2-4 pts (including a the matching flight point).
Right, I meant spend point as opposed to flight point, meaning one spend point plus one flight point is likely to net you about 3-4 cents worth of airline ticket. Maybe I should have said "purchase point" instead of spend point.
Where do you get the 2-4 number, though. Aren't the possibilities 2 (for regular) or 6 (for select spend)? As I read the rules, buying gas/groceries, etc., gets you 1 TY point, plus 2 select spend points, plus the ability to use 3 flight points, for a total of 6. That's a pretty good return--$4,200 worth of groceries, gas, drugs, and parking for a free domestic ticket. That could mean a free ticket every year if you cook with truffles, take any expensive prescription drugs, and drive a gas guzzling Hummer H2 to work every day where you pay for an expensive parking permit. Not that any of these apply to me (bicycle commute keeps me healthy, I guess).
The 6-point interpretation of select spend points seems to be confirmed by other discussion posts I've found here, as well as by the terms of the program which state:
Unless otherwise specified, all references to ThankYou Purchase Points include ThankYou Select Spend Points and ThankYou Special / Bonus Points.
As an aside, when customer service gave me 5,000 points as an apology for something, the person also said it was a $50 value. So internally Citibank seems to value these points at around $.01. (Which makes sense, since I would expect them to be able to buy plane tickets much more cheaply than I can.)
Answer
Right, I meant spend point as opposed to flight point, meaning one spend point plus one flight point is likely to net you about 3-4 cents worth of airline ticket. Maybe I should have said "purchase point" instead of spend point.
Where do you get the 2-4 number, though. Aren't the possibilities 2 (for regular) or 6 (for select spend)? As I read the rules, buying gas/groceries, etc., gets you 1 TY point, plus 2 select spend points, plus the ability to use 3 flight points, for a total of 6. That's a pretty good return--$4,200 worth of groceries, gas, drugs, and parking for a free domestic ticket. That could mean a free ticket every year if you cook with truffles, take any expensive prescription drugs, and drive a gas guzzling Hummer H2 to work every day where you pay for an expensive parking permit. Not that any of these apply to me (bicycle commute keeps me healthy, I guess).
The 6-point interpretation of select spend points seems to be confirmed by other discussion posts I've found here, as well as by the terms of the program which state:
As an aside, when customer service gave me 5,000 points as an apology for something, the person also said it was a $50 value. So internally Citibank seems to value these points at around $.01. (Which makes sense, since I would expect them to be able to buy plane tickets much more cheaply than I can.)
Frankly I am not sure if they match select spend points with flight points. I always say a total of 2-4 points per $ spent (including flight point matching) to be safe. (It may actually be 2-6 points.) You cannot really tell from the monthly statements how the heck they do it.
Note: This is for the Chairman Card. PP Elite would be 2-3 points or 2-4 points depending on flight point matching for select spend points.
Answer
Right, I meant spend point as opposed to flight point, meaning one spend point plus one flight point is likely to net you about 3-4 cents worth of airline ticket. Maybe I should have said "purchase point" instead of spend point.
Where do you get the 2-4 number, though. Aren't the possibilities 2 (for regular) or 6 (for select spend)? As I read the rules, buying gas/groceries, etc., gets you 1 TY point, plus 2 select spend points, plus the ability to use 3 flight points, for a total of 6. That's a pretty good return--$4,200 worth of groceries, gas, drugs, and parking for a free domestic ticket. That could mean a free ticket every year if you cook with truffles, take any expensive prescription drugs, and drive a gas guzzling Hummer H2 to work every day where you pay for an expensive parking permit. Not that any of these apply to me (bicycle commute keeps me healthy, I guess).
The 6-point interpretation of select spend points seems to be confirmed by other discussion posts I've found here, as well as by the terms of the program which state:
As an aside, when customer service gave me 5,000 points as an apology for something, the person also said it was a $50 value. So internally Citibank seems to value these points at around $.01. (Which makes sense, since I would expect them to be able to buy plane tickets much more cheaply than I can.)
I have received a 5,000 point "we're sorry bonus" twice. The first time they forgot to send out my card. The second time Thank You network transferred me to 5 different reps and kept me on hold for 1/2 an hour because my Thankyou Merchant access was somehow deactivated. That's $100 towards the $400/yr fee. I love it when they make mistakes! Now that's a happy customer :)