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The good old days of great conversion rate is OVER. Now they pegged 2 to 4% as currency conversion fee - that makes it no difference than Credit Card !
I just called both Chase and BoA - It turns out there are MAJOR CHANGES effective June 1st 2005 regarding the % service fee involved International withdrawal. Such fees were not there before. Now the fees are about the same as using a credit card.
The Chase rep told me it is governed by the agreement they signed with Cirrus Network that they have to pay 3.5% to the Network for the conversion. International withdrawal fee remains 3 bucks. It applies to all types of account.
BoA : The rep said effective June 1, there is a % fee for currency conversion from 2% to 3% depends which state your account is located. For Florida, it is 3%. :( . International withdrawal fee ranging between $2 to $5. And FL got the short end of $5. However, BoA has an affiliate network of 6 banks that if you take money out from the network bank, there is no International withdrawal fee. However, the 2% to 3% currency conversion still applies. BoA rep also said it will show up on the statement as a separate line item.
Apparently the MC & Visa networks finally wise up to realize ATM withdrawal in foreign countries can be a big profit generator and go ahead to charge fees. Previously, only credit card has 3% service charges (hidden in the conversion before, now has to show separately).
The good old days are over. Now there is no difference between using ATM or Credit Card for the spending needs overseas, as both involve 2% to 3% fee.
Sorry for harping no conversion fee for ATM withdrawal. Now the fee is about as expensive as credit card. May be T-Checks would regain popularity if the total loss is less than 2% when you add up the 0.75% and the difference in "buying" foreign currency. (us buy high sell low, the bank keep the difference)
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A friend of mine was able to get the foreign withdrawl fee waived for 4 months because there were no affiliate ATMs available in the city we lived (Barcelona, Spain)
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Is the conversion fee a Visa/MC fee which can not be avoided regardless of which card is used?
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The Chase rep told me it is governed by the agreement they signed with Cirrus Network that they have to pay 3.5% to the Network for the conversion. International withdrawal fee remains 3 bucks. It applies to all types of account.
.......
Apparently the MC & Visa networks finally wise up to realize ATM withdrawal in foreign countries can be a big profit generator and go ahead to charge fees. Previously, only credit card has 3% service charges (hidden in the conversion before, now has to show separately).
I wouldn't trust the answer from Chase. I was getting hit with an effective 3.5% cost on ATM withdrawals from last year. When I complained, the Chase rep swore that they didn't charge me any fee since I was a Select customer. They said it was the foreign bank whi charged the fee. I now know that this was probably not true. For my latest withdrawal from Checking this month in India, there was a 3.5% fee listed separately.
I suspect that this may have something to do with ATM cards that have the MasterCard logo and are usable as debit cards. Does anyone have experience whose Chase ATM card is not a MC version?
It is not MC and Visa who are charging the fees - it is the banks who get almost all of the fee. Just a simple greedy increase in fees where there is no actual increase in cost.
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Of course it is the greed of the banks, Chase just "gave" a reason in the hope that its customers wont bark.
Bottom Line is : there is almost no way to avoid the 1% from MC/Visa network, but most major banks also peg 2% on top of it.
BTW, if the ATM cards do not have MC or Visa logo, I seriously doubt you can use it to withdraw money international.
As of May 31, only Wachovia and Capital One, do not add 2%. I have not called either one to verify. In any event, dont intend to use Capital One. But I would consider to open a Wachovia account if they dont peg additional 2% on international withdrawal.
Chase told me the 3.5% fee applies to all types of account. BoA told me their charges varied. Unfornately for us live in FL, we are hit with the high end - 3% conversion fee and 5 bucks international withdrawal fee. Though there are ways to avoid the 5 bucks by using affiliate banks ATM, such as Scotia in Canada, Parisbas in France, Deutsch in Germany, so on so forth.
Last year I took CAD in Toronto, the BoA ATM fee was only 1.50, just like the ATM fee in the U.S. if you use other bank's ATM.
This past May I took some peso in Mexico, was hit with $5 international withdrawal fee, making that $75 worth peso withdrawal very expensive. I would have been better off just use the money exchange window. Sometimes in Mexico such places offer better rates than banks. Dont ever know why.
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My credit union only charges the 1% conversion fee they are charged.
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My credit union only charges the 1% conversion fee they are charged.
Opened an account with Wachovia today. Verified both via e-mail earlier and in person when opening account, they only charge the 1% that Visa charged them.
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If you guys travel a lot and withdraw money internationally very often, a simple solution would be to open a checking account with a descent credit union that charge 1% flat (or whatever Visa/MC charges them). My credit union also charges 1% flat which they are charged by visa, nothing else is charged to customers. They never add any 1-3% extra like most other banks do....
You can just have that account opened with a minimum balance required by them, and only when travelling, transfer some money into it to cover the amount you may need to withdraw while overseas...
This is way better than paying the 3-4% fee most BLOODY banks charge you ! :mad:
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that is why for those of us who do not, we are searching for banks that dont charge you the bloddy fee.
Wachovia is one of them I just posted.
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Last year I took CAD in Toronto, the BoA ATM fee was only 1.50, just like the ATM fee in the U.S. if you use other bank's ATM.
This past May I took some peso in Mexico, was hit with $5 international withdrawal fee, making that $75 worth peso withdrawal very expensive. I would have been better off just use the money exchange window. Sometimes in Mexico such places offer better rates than banks. Dont ever know why.
If you have a BofA debit card, you should have used a Scotiabank Inverlat ATM here in Mexico, which does not charge the $5 withdrawal fee thanks to the Global alliance.
About the exchange rates, currency exchange in Mexico is quite popular and banks have to compete with Currency Exchange bureaus. They make a lot of money from the spread (buy and sell) so they do not charge a fee per currency exchange transaction and the exchange rates tend to be competitive, specially in places whith many banks and currency exchange bureaus like Mexico City international airport.
I work for a bank in Mexico and believe me, what Chase told you about a flat 3.5% rate charge by the ATM owner is not true!!
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Anyone know what Citibank or US Bank do?
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If you have a BofA debit card, you should have used a Scotiabank Inverlat ATM here in Mexico, which does not charge the $5 withdrawal fee thanks to the Global alliance.
Not true. Fee waived with Scotiabank, only work in Canada, despite there are Scotiabank all over the place in Mexico. I found that out after I talked to a BoA rep. In any case, the day we were at Huatulco, it was Sunday, Scotiabank ATM is BEHIND a locked gate which requires Scotiabank's own card to swipe open. Each bank in BoA affliate network only waive fee for one country, i.e. Scotiabank for Canada, and Barclay for U.K. ... I forgot the Mexico outfit - but it is definitely a Mexican Bank. You can see the details at a banner ad on the right hand top corner at BoA website.
About the exchange rates, currency exchange in Mexico is quite popular and banks have to compete with Currency Exchange bureaus. They make a lot of money from the spread (buy and sell) so they do not charge a fee per currency exchange transaction and the exchange rates tend to be competitive, specially in places whith many banks and currency exchange bureaus like Mexico City international airport.
Agree with the money exchange services. We have been in Mexico a few times, this was the first time we landed in a small port (on a Panama crossing cruise). Other times we were at Cancun, Cozmel etc. The money exchange windows actually offer better rate than the official rates by banks.
I work for a bank in Mexico and believe me, what Chase told you about a flat 3.5% rate charge by the ATM owner is not true!!
No doubt in my mind Chase is telling a BIG LIE. I just passed it along what they tried to get customers to believe.
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Anyone know what Citibank or US Bank do?
but if you take money from Citi ATM, no ATM fee.
dont know what you mean by US Bank.
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ATM withdrawal and point of sale transactions are different. MC/VISA charges 1% for the latter, but NOT the former. So if you get charged a fee for ATM withdrawal, it's either by your own bank or the other bank. As for Citibank, I can confirm that they charge no fee for foreign currency ATM withdrawal if you use a citibank ATM. If you use other banks' ATMs, the fee depends on your account package but is still the same as a non-citibank withdrawal in the U.S.
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Maybe it is a good idea to open a foreign bank account? See for instance http://www.smile.co.uk/
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Lots of specualtion on this thread but I see little hard evidence.
Does anyone actually have in hand either:
1. A notice from a financial institution that there is now or will be a mark-up of more than 1% on foreign ATM transactions
or
2. A statement or reciept where such a fee was imposed?
If as the OP stated this changed on June 1, 2005, there should be a lot more than rumor to deal with by now.
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Not true. Fee waived with Scotiabank, only work in Canada, despite there are Scotiabank all over the place in Mexico. I found that out after I talked to a BoA rep. In any case, the day we were at Huatulco, it was Sunday, Scotiabank ATM is BEHIND a locked gate which requires Scotiabank's own card to swipe open. Each bank in BoA affliate network only waive fee for one country, i.e. Scotiabank for Canada, and Barclay for U.K. ... I forgot the Mexico outfit - but it is definitely a Mexican Bank. You can see the details at a banner ad on the right hand top corner at BoA website.
I didn't know BofA only waives ATM fees on one country per each participant bank, although it would be interesting to know if things haven't changed, since the Global ATM alliance has expanded and maybe they did not update the banner
I don't work for Scotiabank, but I have friends working there and they tell me that their participation in the Global ATM alliance waives the ATM access fee when using the ATM's of participant banks including the ATM's of subsidiaries that sign the agreement. In Scotiabank's case they have extended their agreement and now they offer more than 2,500 machines across Canada, 300 ATMs across the Caribbean, 115 ATMs in Chile and 997 ATMs throughout Mexico. Deutsche offers ATM's in Germany, Poland, Spain and Italy, and so on...
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID4710_LIDen,00.html
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Lots of specualtion on this thread but I see little hard evidence.
Does anyone actually have in hand either:
1. A notice from a financial institution that there is now or will be a mark-up of more than 1% on foreign ATM transactions
Unfortunately, yes. Union Bank of California sent me one saying they will now charge 2% on top of the $3.50 transaction charge. They won't admit it, but it appears they charged this on my withdrawal at Narita in April; at least it was 2% more than it should have been but they blamed it on the Japanese bank.
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I don't work for Scotiabank, but I have friends working there and they tell me that their participation in the Global ATM alliance waives the ATM access fee when using the ATM's of participant banks including the ATM's of subsidiaries that sign the agreement. In Scotiabank's case they have extended their agreement and now they offer more than 2,500 machines across Canada, 300 ATMs across the Caribbean, 115 ATMs in Chile and 997 ATMs throughout Mexico. Deutsche offers ATM's in Germany, Poland, Spain and Italy, and so on...
http://www.scotiabank.com/cda/content/0,1608,CID4710_LIDen,00.html
I notice Scotia charges its customer 2.5% currency conversion, plus Visa's 1% - that is 3.5% total, and effective date was April 5 2004 !
Wachovia only passes along the 1% network fee ... so even Wachovia charges $2.00 for non-Wachovia ATM, for a sum of, say, 1000 bucks withdrawal, one would be better off to pay the $2.00 ATM fee. Besides, Wachovia currently allows 2 non-Wachovia ATM withdrawal free per each statement cycle.
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Lots of specualtion on this thread but I see little hard evidence.
Does anyone actually have in hand either:
1. A notice from a financial institution that there is now or will be a mark-up of more than 1% on foreign ATM transactions
or
2. A statement or reciept where such a fee was imposed?
If as the OP stated this changed on June 1, 2005, there should be a lot more than rumor to deal with by now.
You obviously have not had any foreign ATM withdrawal lately or not wonder to other boards on the net beside this site. Go to Cruisecritic site and do a search, you will find enough posts about people found this out when they received their statements for recent withdrawals outside U.S.
Rojo posted a link of Scotiabank - follow that, you will see Scotiabank actually started charging 2.5% (on top of the 1%) since April of 2004 !
Why dont you call your bank, or Chase, or BofA to verify it yourself ? You dont need to be their customers to call. Matter of factly, I was arguing with 2 other people about Chase, and recommend BofA to them based on my experience as late as this past May ... then I called myself and got the bad news.
Also, come with this month's statement, there is a little insert informing the information posted here.
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You obviously have not had any foreign ATM withdrawal lately or not wonder to other boards on the net beside this site. Go to Cruisecritic site and do a search, you will find enough posts about people found this out when they received their statements for recent withdrawals outside U.S.
Rojo posted a link of Scotiabank - follow that, you will see Scotiabank actually started charging 2.5% (on top of the 1%) since April of 2004 !
Why dont you call your bank, or Chase, or BofA to verify it yourself ? You dont need to be their customers to call. Matter of factly, I was arguing with 2 other people about Chase, and recommend BofA to them based on my experience as late as this past May ... then I called myself and got the bad news.
Also, come with this month's statement, there is a little insert informing the information posted here.
The topic of this thread is Major Changes June 1, 2005. Other than LittleLeagueMom, no one has posted hard evidence of such changes for any major programs.
Why would I call Chase, BofA or anyone else I don't do business with? They have millions of customers and if their rules changed, I bet we'd read it here on FT within a few hours. That is if there were really changes and not just mistakes and specualtion by CSRs.
There have always been small ATM fees for overseas withdrawals. Some US banks credit back those fees, many do not. All of the fees I have seen have been buried in the net exchange rate, although there may be banks that list them seperately.
So back to my point-who else has hard evidence of a percentage mark-up (over and above fees) on foreign ATM withdrawals through a major bank?
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Given BankOne now bought Chase, may be they are now No.1 and BankofAmerica becomes No.2 - ok, they are not the major banks in this country.
We are not talking about either the "foreign" ATM withdrawal fee here - by "foreign" - it means any ATM does not belong to your own bank - it can be the ATM at the grocery store down the street ... just not your own bank.
In the past, many banks only charge the regular "foreign" ATM fee does not matter the ATM is at a gas station hundreds away from home, or an ATM at NRT. I paid only $1.25 ATM fee for my withdrawal at NRT in spring of 2004, FYI. These days banks charge an International ATM fee, which is 2 to 3 times more than the non-own-bank ATM fee they charge domestically. Chase has long been charging $3.00 international withdrawal fee, and the feel is still the same after 3 years it is in effect. But they are now charging an additional 3.5% currency conversion fee.
the currency conversion charges were burried in the conversion in the past - however, by recent regulations as a result of a class lawsuit brought by customers against Visa and Mastercard regarding non-disclosure - now the credit card companies are required to disclose the padded charges as a separate line item on the statement - many people found out the long existing fee this way.
ATM withdrawal has long been the defense against the currency conversion fee charged by credit card companies - apparently it is not anymore.
Interpret it whatever you like, and pounding on the wording whichever way you like - it does not help a bit to change the bottom line, and the impact to us who travel overseas often.
By all means, you can find this out yourself, when you make an overseas ATM withdrawal then to see what shows up on your statement.
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Good idea.
Perhaps folks with recent ATM charges at machines outside the USA that deliver non-dollar currency could post the foreign currency amount withdrawn and the amount taken from their account in dollars. With a decent selection of examples, it should be easy to spot what is being added to these transactions for fees and currency upcharges. As I said earlier, if these charges are widespread, we should have a lot of posts from burned FT participants.
By the way, I did contact one of the large banks you mentioned. The first CSR said the upcharge is 2%; I asked for a supervisor who, after a long time on hold, came back to say that the bank adds no fee above whatever comes thru from Visa/Plus and the overseas bank. CSRs have a notoriously poor track record on these types of questions, perhaps because it rarely comes up.
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Good idea.
By the way, I did contact one of the large banks you mentioned. The first CSR said the upcharge is 2%; I asked for a supervisor who, after a long time on hold, came back to say that the bank adds no fee above whatever comes thru from Visa/Plus and the overseas bank. CSRs have a notoriously poor track record on these types of questions, perhaps because it rarely comes up.
accounts outside FL, are 2% and $3 bucks, (or $2 I forgot). Accounts in FL are 3% and $5 bucks.
and BTW, I talked to a supervisor as I did not believe what I heard.
What I hope is enough people defect (by using the lower fee banks) those who charge exurberant fees would re-consider their rate. But I would not hold my breath with it.
Also I dont think this area is an area true FTers frequent - this area is more like a sideshoot - the true FTers care about much more the Airline programs and the hotel programs. Most the FTers travel overseas on companies dime, with some personal spending involved - who really care much if your hotel bills are paid by the company ?
just go compare the number of posts in this area vs those, say, under AA, CO, UA threads, for the starter.
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What I hope is enough people defect (by using the lower fee banks) those who charge exurberant fees would re-consider their rate. But I would not hold my breath with it.
I also hope people start defecting and change banks, but that will probably not happen. In Mexico, we have had, during the last 5 years, big increases in fees charged by banks, and we didn't see a big shift of customers. The secret is to increase fees gradually so people can ge used to them. It is quite complex, but most customers don't even see their account statement and don't realize how much the banks are charging them.
Also I dont think this area is an area true FTers frequent - this area is more like a sideshoot - the true FTers care about much more the Airline programs and the hotel programs. Most the FTers travel overseas on companies dime, with some personal spending involved - who really care much if your hotel bills are paid by the company ?
just go compare the number of posts in this area vs those, say, under AA, CO, UA threads, for the starter.
Since banks have increase their fees all over the world, I decided to change my strategy and open bank accounts in the countries I visit the most. I have checking accounts (all free checking) in Mexico, US, UK and Spain. In some places it is tough to open bank accounts, specially in the UK, where you have to be a resident and have a bill in your name. In the US it is much easier, you only have to have a passport and that is it. I also hold credit cards from banks in the US, Mexico and Spain all paid automatically from my checking accounts.
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but if you take money from Citi ATM, no ATM fee.
dont know what you mean by US Bank.
US Bank is one of the largest banks in the United States, predominant in the mid-west and now the west coast.
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so in the end
if you have a wachovia atm card what will it cost to withdraw 100lbs in london? eg
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BTW, if the ATM cards do not have MC or Visa logo, I seriously doubt you can use it to withdraw money international.
that's not true....my old ATM card without a Visa or MC logo worked just fine in London, Paris and Hong Kong...
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BTW, if the ATM cards do not have MC or Visa logo, I seriously doubt you can use it to withdraw money international.
Nonsense.
Don't want to pay those fees that big banks seem to charge for breathing on the wrong beat? Find a good credit union. Don't want to contribute to the big banks bottom line and quarterly profits? Find a good credit union.
-David
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Nonsense.
Don't want to pay those fees that big banks seem to charge for breathing on the wrong beat? Find a good credit union. Don't want to contribute to the big banks bottom line and quarterly profits? Find a good credit union.
-David
Very good point David. Why do business with "Major" banks who try to lead fee increases in the banking industry?
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so what is the consensus???
check with your bank???
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Nonsense.
Don't want to pay those fees that big banks seem to charge for breathing on the wrong beat? Find a good credit union. Don't want to contribute to the big banks bottom line and quarterly profits? Find a good credit union.
-David
Not everyone qualifies to join a credit union.
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Not everyone qualifies to join a credit union.
Meadows credit union accepts anyone with an email address : www.meadowscu.com. There are many others that require you to be
a member of some organization anyone can joint for a $5 - $20 one time fee.
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Not everyone qualifies to join a credit union.
I'm sure one of the 223 credit unions in the state of Florida will accept you as a member. :) And we can do the same lookup for anybody else that needs help finding one.
You do have an email addy, right?
Commercial banks hate credit unions and they keep trying to limit their membership and squash them. I wonder why?
-David
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I'm sure one of the 223 credit unions in the state of Florida will accept you as a member. :) And we can do the same lookup for anybody else that needs help finding one.
You do have an email addy, right?
Commercial banks hate credit unions and they keep trying to limit their membership and squash them. I wonder why?
-David
No need to search the 223 credit unions and to figure out their "credit worthy" (no pun) and if it is federally insured etc. while the bank I just opened an account with is 1.6 mile from home, on my way to grocery store, FDIC insured, and only charge 1% like a lot of credit unions do ... They also replied my e-mail enquiry by a human being, answered all the questions I asked. Excellent customer service rep over the phone as well. So why should I bother with a credit union ?
Granted, some may argue you get a lower mortgage rate or car loan rate etc with credit unions - but if I dont have any of such need, there is no edge for me to explore them.
I dont really care for whether it is a credit union or a bank, as long as they are reasonably priced, good customer services, easy access whether is in person, or online, or via the phone, who cares whether they are commercial banks or credit unions ? I dont care.
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BTW, if the ATM cards do not have MC or Visa logo, I seriously doubt you can use it to withdraw money international.
The key isn't the Visa/MC logo on front - it's the ATM network logos on back (Cirrus, Maestro, Pulse, Star, AFFN, etc). I've tried to use my debit card at an ATM that has the MC logo, but not one of the logos on the back of my card, and it got rejected...then I went down the street to a place that had the Cirrus logo, but not the MC logo, and it worked like a charm. When the card is used as an ATM card, it's processed on the ATM networks. When it's used as a debit card, it's processed on the debit (Visa/MC) networks.
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The key isn't the Visa/MC logo on front - it's the ATM network logos on back (Cirrus, Maestro, Pulse, Star, AFFN, etc). I've tried to use my debit card at an ATM that has the MC logo, but not one of the logos on the back of my card, and it got rejected...then I went down the street to a place that had the Cirrus logo, but not the MC logo, and it worked like a charm. When the card is used as an ATM card, it's processed on the ATM networks. When it's used as a debit card, it's processed on the debit (Visa/MC) networks.
I am ignorant about this. Dont know the difference between a debit card and an ATM card - all my cards are called Check Cards by the issuing banks. Domestically I only withdraw cash from the bank's own ATMs, so no need to even look at the back of the card to find the right network. Never use them for purchases as all my purchases are done by credit cards. Since I dont use my Check Cards for purchases and only use them to withdraw money from bank's ATMs, there is never a need for me to distinguish a "debit card" or an "ATM card". All I know is my "Check Cards" are good at getting cash out from ATM's, here and aboard. I know my "Check Card" can be used for POS transactions but I never use them this way. All I care is I can use them to get cash when travelling overseas. And I can.
Never look at the back of the cards and try to find the matching networks when finding ATMs overseas. I just look for the logo of either Visa or MC, most of the time the foreign countries ATMs have both - so I use the Check Card that with the correspondent logo to get my foreign currency.
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I am ignorant about this. Dont know the difference between a debit card and an ATM card - all my cards are called Check Cards by the issuing banks. Domestically I only withdraw cash from the bank's own ATMs, so no need to even look at the back of the card to find the right network. Never use them for purchases as all my purchases are done by credit cards. Since I dont use my Check Cards for purchases and only use them to withdraw money from bank's ATMs, there is never a need for me to distinguish a "debit card" or an "ATM card". All I know is my "Check Cards" are good at getting cash out from ATM's, here and aboard. I know my "Check Card" can be used for POS transactions but I never use them this way. All I care is I can use them to get cash when travelling overseas. And I can.
Never look at the back of the cards and try to find the matching networks when finding ATMs overseas. I just look for the logo of either Visa or MC, most of the time the foreign countries ATMs have both - so I use the Check Card that with the correspondent logo to get my foreign currency.
The fact that you are ignorant about it does not change what sorro said, which is absolutely correct. You simply have lucked out that the ATMs you went to were on a member ATM network listed on the back of your card. Visa/MC had NADA to do with it for ATM cash purposes.
The big banks started issuing check cards/debit cards about 5 years go (at least) to replace what was up until then an ATM-only card. Chase, for example, replaced their ATM card with an MC branded card that was ATM, or debit on any MC network. You can still, however, get an ATM only card if you ask -- which I did because I don't want to deal with the hassle of someone emptying my bank account from debits if I lose it. Sure, I am only liable for 50 bucks (which they never charge), but in the meantime, my account is empty too!
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The big banks started issuing check cards/debit cards about 5 years go (at least) to replace what was up until then an ATM-only card. Chase, for example, replaced their ATM card with an MC branded card that was ATM, or debit on any MC network. You can still, however, get an ATM only card if you ask -- which I did because I don't want to deal with the hassle of someone emptying my bank account from debits if I lose it. Sure, I am only liable for 50 bucks (which they never charge), but in the meantime, my account is empty too!
Have not asked for Wachovia's liability policy - but I do know BofA has ZERO liability. I am not even sure Debit Card has same liability as Credit Card - as far as I know, Debit Card has no limit like the $50 on Credit Card - it is up to the bank's policy.
You mean the foreign ATMs also display the cirrus network, pulse, star, etc ?
I looked up my 2 cards, the networks are Interlink, Plus, (not pulse), and NYCE.
I googled up an old press release by Wachovia - it was dd 2003 - said Wachovia has chosen Visa as their debit card processor, and Plus will be their International ATM network.
BoA card essentially has the same networks as Wachovia's.
Dont know if I lucked out of not, the fact is, I only use Visa/MC as my logo recognistion for Foreign ATMs, and over the years have YET to fail to withdraw cash from Auckland to Melbourn to Taihiti, and from NRT Japan to Shanghai China to Hong Kong to Thailand, as well as anywhere in Canada, plus the latest one I am not happy about due to high fee, at a tiny port of Mexico, called Huatulco.
By no means I dispute Soro's claim. Just say it as it is, that based on my own experiences, and my own personal need, there is not a necessity to look up the networks at the back and try to find a matching ATM.
I dont know why you guys have to make things so much more complicated. Yeah, you guys are 100% technically correct - but does it have any consequences on my day to day life, and to my need when travelling ? NADA.
So I am pleading ignorance, and merrily so ... until, may be one day it does not work, then I will figure out why and deal with it. So far, not a single problem. And, yes, using such method for about 5 years. All I do is go on Visa / MC websites to find out their worldwide ATM locations for the destinations I am going to visit ... If I am going to Canada, I dont even bother. But If I am going to Taihiti, yeah, I would look it up. Also Japan, as Japan has a very unusual ATM network - They actually separate a domestic ATM network and an International ATM network, run as a joint venture between Citi and Japan Postal Office, just FYI.
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that's not true....my old ATM card without a Visa or MC logo worked just fine in London, Paris and Hong Kong...
I was the one who originally made the comment about ATM cards without the Visa or MC logo. At least in the past, there were cards with other network logos like NYCE, Cirrus, etc. but no Visa or MC. I think these cards were not usable as debit cards. I had one and the exchange rates were very good - 1% or less in most cases.
I think it was only after I switched to the Chase ATM card usable as a debit card with the MC logo that I began to notice the much worse effective exchange rates. I never used the card as a debit card since getting it and don't need the 'feature.'
Does anyone currently have an ATM card without a Visa or MC logo which can be used outside the US? If so, how are the exchange rates?
By the way, I now have no doubts that the Chase CSRs lied to me as has been reported for so many other banks.
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The key isn't the Visa/MC logo on front - it's the ATM network logos on back (Cirrus, Maestro, Pulse, Star, AFFN, etc). I've tried to use my debit card at an ATM that has the MC logo, but not one of the logos on the back of my card, and it got rejected...then I went down the street to a place that had the Cirrus logo, but not the MC logo, and it worked like a charm. When the card is used as an ATM card, it's processed on the ATM networks. When it's used as a debit card, it's processed on the debit (Visa/MC) networks.
I made the previous posting beore seeing yours. I guess what I am saying is that if the transaction gets processed over the MC network it is expensive while over the ATM networks it is cheaper. My concern is not over getting the funds - it is about the effective exchange rates.
Thanks for your comment.
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Does anyone currently have an ATM card without a Visa or MC logo which can be used outside the US? If so, how are the exchange rates?
My current ATM card is not co-branded with Visa or MasterCard. I have successfully used it in several countries including China and the UK. During my trip to the UK last month, I paid what appears to be the going exchange rate at the time (130 GBP=228 USD) and paid no ATM fees.
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IIRC, in addition to these transaction % fees, they charge a flat $10 fee just for using an ATM in another country (not including Canada).
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Have not asked for Wachovia's liability policy - but I do know BofA has ZERO liability. I am not even sure Debit Card has same liability as Credit Card - as far as I know, Debit Card has no limit like the $50 on Credit Card - it is up to the bank's policy.
You mean the foreign ATMs also display the cirrus network, pulse, star, etc ?
I looked up my 2 cards, the networks are Interlink, Plus, (not pulse), and NYCE.
I googled up an old press release by Wachovia - it was dd 2003 - said Wachovia has chosen Visa as their debit card processor, and Plus will be their International ATM network.
BoA card essentially has the same networks as Wachovia's.
Dont know if I lucked out of not, the fact is, I only use Visa/MC as my logo recognistion for Foreign ATMs, and over the years have YET to fail to withdraw cash from Auckland to Melbourn to Taihiti, and from NRT Japan to Shanghai China to Hong Kong to Thailand, as well as anywhere in Canada, plus the latest one I am not happy about due to high fee, at a tiny port of Mexico, called Huatulco.
By no means I dispute Soro's claim. Just say it as it is, that based on my own experiences, and my own personal need, there is not a necessity to look up the networks at the back and try to find a matching ATM.
I dont know why you guys have to make things so much more complicated. Yeah, you guys are 100% technically correct - but does it have any consequences on my day to day life, and to my need when travelling ? NADA.
So I am pleading ignorance, and merrily so ... until, may be one day it does not work, then I will figure out why and deal with it. So far, not a single problem. And, yes, using such method for about 5 years. All I do is go on Visa / MC websites to find out their worldwide ATM locations for the destinations I am going to visit ... If I am going to Canada, I dont even bother. But If I am going to Taihiti, yeah, I would look it up. Also Japan, as Japan has a very unusual ATM network - They actually separate a domestic ATM network and an International ATM network, run as a joint venture between Citi and Japan Postal Office, just FYI.
I should be most interested in you telling me if it is advisable to use ATMs in Japan. I was told that Traveler checks are a better deal. Is that true?
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My current ATM card is not co-branded with Visa or MasterCard. I have successfully used it in several countries including China and the UK. During my trip to the UK last month, I paid what appears to be the going exchange rate at the time (130 GBP=228 USD) and paid no ATM fees.
Please tell us where and by whom your ATM card was issued. We want to get in on the deal.
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For those in the area served by Santa Barbara Bank and Trust I have an unbranded ATM card from them.
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My citibank card does not get charged if I use a "foreign" ATM. Typically, Europe has not charged either. Are you guys saying that NOW there there are fees, or a % added that you don't see which is the equivalent of using Traveler's Checks? Is it cheaper if I were to use only citibank ATMS if available - not all countries have them - until now, it didm't seem to matter. Haven't been out of the country since last year where I used my ATM in London and Tunisia.
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Primarily Chase and BofA who are jacking up the rates if I am reading correctly
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Primarily Chase and BofA who are jacking up the rates if I am reading correctly
Add Wells Fargo to that list.
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USAA Fed. Savings Bank does not add any fees beyond what MC charges them for conversion when making point of sales transactions outside of the US. Plus they give you 1% cash back on their rewards program so it cancels that fee out,
If you have a free checking account and a MC atm debit card with them, they also don't charge any added fees (beyond what MC charges them) for atm withdrawals, so your effective rate is the wholesale rate + 1%. I have verified this by looking up the rates on the days I made withdrawals and comparing it with what I was charged. They also rebate fees (if any) the "foreign" atm might charge. So you can access your money from any bank's atm (even in the US) without fear of getting hit by any fees.
Plus, their customer service and many of their online banking features are absolutely incredible, especially for the traveler, e.g., they will automatically withdraw from any bank account you specify, your monthly credit card balance due or the minimum payment due (up to you) if you want.
The only problem is that in order to bank with them and get access to the full benefits of USAA membership, you have to have someone in your family (even a father in law will suffice (my case)) who is or was in the military at some time in their lives. But they are really great for travelers so I would encourage anyone who can qualify to try them. The only negative is they don't pay much interest on balances in their free checking accounts. I can live with that.
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Check out the Charles Schwab Visa - Free iPod plus no currency charges
ipod (https://promo.schwabon.com/AD046/AD046Home.asp?campaign=ccip05&mp=ccip05g4xy)
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Check out the Charles Schwab Visa - Free iPod plus no currency charges
ipod (https://promo.schwabon.com/AD046/AD046Home.asp?campaign=ccip05&mp=ccip05g4xy)
Is this a SPAM posting?
I don't see where this site indicates lower charges/ interest rates with a Schwab Visa when travelling.