Question
Can anyone tell me which of the following credit cards do not impose the bank fees (I know that Visa and MC will charge the 1%).
1) MBNA Platinum Plus
2) CapitalOne MilesOne Business Platinum
3) CapitalOne KMart MC
4) Citibank Diamond Preferred
5) AMEX Delta
6) AMEX Starwood
7) AMEX Personal Card
8) BankOne Platinum
Any recommendations of cards I can use?
Thanks in advance.
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All the Amex cards charge a fee above the 1%. Some MBNA cards do not-I suggest you call about the card you have or are considering applying for. I don't know about the rest.
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If you're talking about the foreign currency transaction fee, here's what I know from memory:
MBNA and Capital One do NOT charge an additional foreign currency transaction fee above the 1% Visa/MC service charge.
Citibank, Chase, and Bank One aka First USA charges 3%.
AMEX charges 2%, but they have a less favorable exchange rate that can add almost 1% compared to Visa/MC.
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Maybe you want to consider ATM card in Europe. Credit card is not only the method for foreign currency transaction except for you are spending big amount everyday.
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Here's a nice list I found at Consumer @ction (http://www.consumer-action.org/English/CANews/2002_March_CreditCard/).
2% American Express
2% Columbus Bank & Trust
2% Fleet Bank
2% Simmons First National
2% Wells Fargo Bank
3% Bank of America
3% Bank One (and First USA Bank)
3% Chase Manhattan Bank
3% Citibank
3% First National Bank of Omaha - Gold
3% Household Bank
3% Huntington Direct Bank
3% Peoples Bank
3% Providian National Bank - Platinum
3% US Bank
4% Firstar Corporation
To complete the list you can add
1% - MBNA
1% - CapitalOne
The Consumer @ction list is circa March 2002.
Edited to fix URL.
[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 12-29-2002).]
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anthonyanthony,
do the % include the Mastercard/visa 1% fees?
thanks in advance.
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anthonyanthony,
do the % include the Mastercard/visa 1% fees?
thanks in advance.
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Originally posted by anthonyanthony:
Here's a nice list I found at Consumer @ction (http://www.consumer-action.org/English/CANews/2002_March_CreditCard/).
To complete the list you can add
1% - MBNA
1% - CapitalOne
The Consumer @ction list is circa March 2002.
Edited to fix URL.
[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 12-29-2002).]
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Answering for AnthonyAnthony, to the best of my knowledge the posted fees do include the MC/Visa 1%; these are the actual total fees seen by the customer. Note, of course, that exchange rate calculations may still result in different observed exchange rates even for cards with equivalent fees.
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Originally posted by softwaremaker:
anthonyanthony,
do the % include the Mastercard/visa 1% fees?
thanks in advance.
Yes, they do. And as chalf hinted at, although a company likes Amex is listed at 2%, it is widely reported that the exchange rate, compared to Visa/MC, can add nearly an extra 1%. I've even read somewhere that Visa's exchange rate is just a hair better than Mastercard's.
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Visa and MC use wholesale exchange rates, which benefits the consumer. Even with their 1% fee, the exchange rate is better than anything an individual can get.
-David
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I just ran across a new little charge, courtesy of First USA. I knew their exchange rates were not great, but I don't have a VISA/MC that's not First USA/US Bank, and some places don't take AMEX.
A Euro exchange rate of 1.118 PLUS a $2.08 Exchange Rate Adjustment.
What the **** is an "Exchange Rate Adjustment"???
I gotta get another card....
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Originally posted by 2TallSeaFlyer:
I just ran across a new little charge, courtesy of First USA.
[...]
A Euro exchange rate of 1.118 PLUS a $2.08 Exchange Rate Adjustment.
What the [heck] is an "Exchange Rate Adjustment"???
That's a new one on me. Sounds like they made an error in that day's exchange rate and are adjusting it. Did you call First USA and ask?
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I have a question and was wondering if anyone could answer it.
I was in Italy in December and made purchases on my Diners Club card and my First USA Marriott Visa. Unfortunately I did not have MBNA or Capitol One and couldn't get one in time. All things considered the converted charges in US $ were not as bad as I thought they would be but they were not at the same exchange rate even though some purchases were made on the same day. I think some of the transactions cleared on the same day too but the exchange rate was different for each individual purchase. Any idea why?
Also interestingly enough, the exchange rate shows on my printed bill but not when I view my bill on-line. I assume this rate includes their aditional fee but it is not broken out at all. Is that what the lawsuit is all about?
How can you really tell beforehand if you're getting a good deal or getting taken for a ride?
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Farm Bureau Bank Visa (http://www.farmbureaubank.com/) does not charge a fee andabsorbs Visa's fee.
Sorry; no miles, just cash back (which has recently been reduced to 1%).
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Bob
You only live once -- but if you work it right, once is enough.
Joe E. Lewis
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Originally posted by CMW:
...I was in Italy in December and made purchases on my Diners Club card and my First USA Marriott Visa....
CMW, I used First USA Marriott Visa in London and Paris two weeks ago. Got the statement today, and this baffles me:
Feb 03 GBP 290.74x1.69460686 (exchange rate)+ 9.66(exchange rate adj)
Feb 04 Euro 194.00x1.11546391 (exchange rate)+ 4.24(exchange rate adj)
Feb 06 Euro 309.73x1.11900687 (exchange rate)+ 6.80(exchange rate adj)
Does anyone know what in the world is the additional exchange rate adj, and why is each transaction is different?
[This message has been edited by belle3388 (edited 02-19-2003).]
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It looks like FirstUSA is just breaking out the 2% surcharge that they tack on to the amount after the VISA conversion. The amount that's shown as the adjustment is roughly 2% of the post-conversion amount.
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Expanding on what Rocky said ...
A total guess, but they may be breaking out the extra 2% fee that they charge, which just used to be hidden in the exchange rate. I believe there was or is a class action law suit basically asserting that the banks didn't disclose the extra foreign exchange rate fees enough.
Do those amounts roughly work out to 2% of the charge? (Or 3% of the charge?)
Try something like this site to look up the historical exchange rates:
http://www.oanda.com/convert/fxhistory
I think the wholesale rate is based on the interbank rate, but not sure. The drop-down list also lists 'typical credit card + x%'. Use the posting date of your transaction, not the sale date. Don't forget to factor in the 1% markup that Visa USA and MC charge.
-David
[This message has been edited by LIH Prem (edited 02-21-2003).]
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Originally posted by KC747:
Maybe you want to consider ATM card in Europe. Credit card is not only the method for foreign currency transaction except for you are spending big amount everyday.
Are you suggesting that using an ATM card avoids the surcharges?
For example if I use the following in an ATM machine:
A visa credit card?
A visa debit card (which is normally combined as an ATM card)?
or an ATM card only with no credit card markings?
Would any of these avoid the fee and don't most charge a surcharge for the use of their machine?
Edited because I hit enter before I finished typing
[This message has been edited by jerry crump (edited 02-21-2003).]
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Yes, ATM cards are the best deal. The ATM card with no Visa/MC logo on it is the hands down absolute winner for getting foreign money for cheap.
Many ATMs outside of the USA do not charge an extra fee for using their ATM. The ATM usage fee is mostly a nasty American phenomenon.
[This message has been edited by anthonyanthony (edited 02-25-2003).]
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I didn't realize that. Thanks for the reply. But, there are 2 problems with that. My banks still charge a fee for use outside their network (It is my understanding that most small independent banks and credit unions don't)
And I hven't seen a non visa/mc logo debit card in years. It seemed to me that they started combining logo's with atm cards 5 or 10 years ago and I assumed the atm only cards dissapeared.
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ATM-only cards have not disappeared at all, not by a longshot. When my bank started offering MasterCard debit cards instead, I refused it. I didn't have to work too hard, as they did send a form allowing me to opt out of the debit. I suspect most banks have this option.
A debit card is a useful tool, I suppose, but the idea of a debit card drives me nuts when I think of the stolen number angle. If someone were to steal the MC/Visa number and expiration from a debit card, they can then empty your bank account! And getting that money back in is harder than getting a credit for a bill that you haven't yet paid. In some ways it seems like a debit card is a product only necessary for those who can't get a credit card (or who just can't help themselves charging right up to the limit if they have a real credit card). A real card offers better protection. And miles (or other points) of course! http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/biggrin.gif
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Originally posted by jerry crump:
[B]I didn't realize that. Thanks for the reply. But, there are 2 problems with that. My banks still charge a fee for use outside their network (It is my understanding that most small independent banks and credit unions don't)
[B]
Well, then the question becomes is your bank/credit union's "ATM network fee" lower than the 1%-3% charge of your credit card? For example, if you withdraw $100, then you know your credit card will hit you with a $1-$3 fee (1%-3% of $100). So you ask yourself is that lower or higher than your bank/credit union's ATM network fee?
Also, if your ATM card has a Visa/MC logo on it, I think it still might be possible to use it to make an ATM transaction. The key is that you have to make sure that the ATM doesn't make a "Cash Advance" or "Credit Card" transaction. When you use the ATM, it gives you these choices. If you rule out "Credit Card" and "Cash Advance" transactions, then it will treat your withdrawal as an ATM transaction, even though there's Visa/MC logo on your card.
The key is that you want the ATM to uses the Cirrus or Plus type ATM networks to get your money, and *not* the Visa/MC credit card network. I'm no expert on this, but that's my understanding of it...
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Related:
http://www.flyertalk.com/forum/Forum112/HTML/000405.html
[This message has been edited by EPS (edited 03-05-2003).]
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Originally posted by anthonyanthony:
Well, then the question becomes is your bank/credit union's "ATM network fee" lower than the 1%-3% charge of your credit card? For example, if you withdraw $100, then you know your credit card will hit you with a $1-$3 fee (1%-3% of $100). So you ask yourself is that lower or higher than your bank/credit union's ATM network fee?
Also, if your ATM card has a Visa/MC logo on it, I think it still might be possible to use it to make an ATM transaction. The key is that you have to make sure that the ATM doesn't make a "Cash Advance" or "Credit Card" transaction. When you use the ATM, it gives you these choices. If you rule out "Credit Card" and "Cash Advance" transactions, then it will treat your withdrawal as an ATM transaction, even though there's Visa/MC logo on your card.
The key is that you want the ATM to uses the Cirrus or Plus type ATM networks to get your money, and *not* the Visa/MC credit card network. I'm no expert on this, but that's my understanding of it...
I think you are correct. You have to be careful how you use the ATM/debit card.
I also have a true ATM-only card with my credit union. I opted out of converting mine to a Visa debit card. The credit union charges no fee for using the ATM card in or out of network, however, I usually end up paying the ATM owners fee (the one drawback of banking with a small non-network bank or credit union) which is generally around $2 in Hawaii. It's cheaper to use the ATM card to pay for groceries and get cash back with no fee. I have no idea if this works overseas or not. I did use my ATM card quite a bit in Asia last year, and it worked fine. I vaguely recall using it somewhere to purchase goods, but I can't remember where.
-David
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If you want to withdraw local currency from a foreign ATM without having to worry about an ATM fee charged by your own bank and you have an investment account, check into the ATM fees on a debit card connected to it.
I was reading up on this on FT on another thread(can't find it now)before a trip to Italy last December. A FT recommended using a debit card connected to an investment account for ATM withdrawal. I called Waterhouse and found it to be true that they would not charge a fee for ATM withdrawals. Since the overseas ATM doesn't charge a fee theoretically it would be fee free.
FWIW, I did not receive the card connected to my Waterhouse account in time before I left for my trip so I had to go with my regular checking account ATM/Check card. On that I was told the exchange rate would include the 1% to 3% fee and of course my bank charged $2.50 for a non-network ATM. It was not too painful but irritating.
The downside of taking a card attached to an investment account would be if it gets stolen.
I'll see if I can find that thread...
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Why is an ATM only card better than a bank card with a Visa logo on it?
I have a bank card with the Visa logo - and a bank that gives me a good deal. Not only do they not charge a fee for ATM transactions with other banks - but they refund a foreign ATM's transaction fee. I found it interesting that a $20 euro withdrawal in Paris last summer showed on my bank account as something like $23.64 withdral and the $3.64 was refunded as an ATM fee. So 20 Euros cost me $20.
Anyhow - how would the Visa logo normally affect the excange rate I recieve?
Answer
Originally posted by wanaflyforless:
Why is an ATM only card better than a bank card with a Visa logo on it?
Anyhow - how would the Visa logo normally affect the excange rate I recieve?
The Visa logo should have no effect. The key distinctions are 1. Do you have an ATM or credit card, 2. If your card can be used as either an ATMor debit card, what type of transaction are you making,and 3. What are your bank's terms and fees for the transaction you're executing.
The confusion arises when a card can be both debit and ATM. Often the charges for a cash advance as a debit can be greater, expecially overseas where banks often lard-up fees on credit card and debit card cash advances. ATM machines are almost always safe from these big add-ons.
I think the logo comes into play since if you walk into a bank and ask for cash using a card that has Visa on it, the bank may record a cash advance rather than an ATM transaction.
BTW, would you mind identifying the issuer of your no fee card? I've been looking to get one that refunds overseas charges.
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I use the debit card attached to my Fidelity account when I travel internationally, for charges and,usually once each trip, for cash. I believe the rules are five cash withdrawals a month on the card before there are fees. This might relate to the amount in the account, I don't remember.
I used to use Schwab, but they now charge $1 a cash transaction, I believe, and in general I've found them deteriorating in service and increasing fees and I am phasing out that account.
Sylvia
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Originally posted by Mountain Trader:
BTW, would you mind identifying the issuer of your no fee card? I've been looking to get one that refunds overseas charges.[/B]
I use my American Bank Visa card. They do not charge for use of foreign ATMs ever and refund up to $6/month of what foreign ATMs charge you (domestic or international). They also pay 1.5% interest on e-checking accounts - with no fees whatsoever so long as you maintain an average balance of 1K. I have been their customer for three years and have been very happy with their toll free CS - I have always gotten a competent live person with 0-2 minutes waiting. The disadvantage is they probably don't have a bank near you - but for a second or third account they are a great deal. I do all my banking by mail (postage paid env.) and online.
You can check them out at www.pcbanker.com (http://www.pcbanker.com)
If you do decide to open an account with them, please email me for a referral. I would get a bonus, and I think you would get $10 for being referred. Thanks!
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Originally posted by wanaflyforless:
I use my American Bank Visa card. They do not charge for use of foreign ATMs ever and refund up to $6/month of what foreign ATMs charge you (domestic or international). They also pay 1.5% interest on e-checking accounts - with no fees whatsoever so long as you maintain an average balance of 1K. I have been their customer for three years and have been very happy with their toll free CS - I have always gotten a competent live person with 0-2 minutes waiting. The disadvantage is they probably don't have a bank near you - but for a second or third account they are a great deal. I do all my banking by mail (postage paid env.) and online.
You can check them out at www.pcbanker.com (http://www.pcbanker.com)
If you do decide to open an account with them, please email me for a referral. I would get a bonus, and I think you would get $10 for being referred. Thanks!
If I do pursue an account, I'll get back to you for the referral goodies.
While the fees are annoying, they're only around $30 a year for my action, and it's a lot of work to set-up a new account with a new institution. But I'm tempted.
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OK--I recently started another thread just like this somewhere, but because I am a doof, I cannot figure out where I put it anymore to respond there. Consequently, here's the information I found out when I called:
Amex is 2% fee on all their cards.
Credit union mastercard is 0% from them, but 1% from mastercard. No ATM fees, except what the foreign ATM charges.
AAdvantage citibank mastercard is 3%.
Discover is not accepted in Italy.
Nordstrom's visa says they are 0%, and that there is no visa surcharge either. I am sceptical, but figure it probably can't be worse than the 1% found elsewhere, and you get points towards Nordstrom's merchandise with any purchase.
Hope this helps...
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Originally posted by lonegungirl:
[B]Nordstrom's VISA says they are 0%, and that there is no VISA surcharge eitherDid a human CSR tell you that or is it on paper ? I use rewards type cards from MBNA or Capital One to ensure no extra fees and rewards accrual. Nordstroms is one to add to my list, Thanks
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Just got back from London/Paris. Haven't seen the latest conversion rates on my credit/charge cards yet, but a 100 Euro ATM withdrawal posted to my bank account as US$116.87 on 17 Oct.
On 13 Oct, 100 Pounds (UK) was posted as US$168.
Pretty good rates using my non-branded ATM card.
I still got reamed converting some Euros to Pounds on the way back from Paris at a kiosk. Fortunately, I didn't have that much to convert.
-David
[This message has been edited by LIH Prem (edited 10-19-2003).]
[This message has been edited by LIH Prem (edited 10-19-2003).]
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I called Fleet Bank for the surcharge on overseas transactions. Was told they don't charge additional fees on top of the Visa/Mastercard's 1%. Anyone can confirm with this?
Thanks.
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- I am a Freqnt Miles Maniac and a Ballroom Dance Miniac :-) -
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Anthonyanthony, I have asked a similar question and received responses to contact the issuers I was interested in. I too was interested in the least costly which I hadn't a clue to whom it might be.
Your responses in this thread have been most helpful to me as well.
Thank you.
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Originally posted by FrequentMilesManiac:
I called Fleet Bank for the surcharge on overseas transactions. Was told they don't charge additional fees on top of the Visa/Mastercard's 1%. Anyone can confirm with this?
Thanks.
Fleet, MBNA and Capital One are the issuers that (to my knowledge) do not charge additional surcharges on foreign currency transactions.
-David
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After reading this thread, I decided to call some of my CCs.
Here's what I came up with..
AA Citibank MC - 3%
Starwood AMEX - 2%
MBNA MC - 2%
From everything I've read, the total transaction fee for MBNA should be 1%. Is this a case of a misinformed CSR, or did MC or MBNA raise a fee somewhere?
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Great question!! I talked to a CSR last month or so, and he told me total foreign exchange fee would be 1% = 0% (from MBNA) + 1% (from MasterCard or VISA)
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Originally posted by TraveltheWorld:
MBNA MC - 2%
From everything I've read, the total transaction fee for MBNA should be 1%. Is this a case of a misinformed CSR, or did MC or MBNA raise a fee somewhere?
Anything is possible. Did you call back to verify? It could be that MBNA now has a surcharge, or your specific MBNA card has a surcharge, or anything. Please update this thread if/when you get more info.
-David
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BofA soon will purchase FleetBoston. I wonder if then the foreign surcharges will be under BofA standard or not. In any case, I just dumped my Fleet Visa card after paying off all my transfers.
I currently have MBNA Worldpoints Master and will get MBNA Barnes & Noble card soon. Was told MBNA by a CSR that MBNA doesn't have surcharge as of last month. Any update on this matter?
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- I am a Freqnt Miles Maniac and a Ballroom Dance Miniac :-) -
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My philosophy used to be "use VISA/MC for everything" as you generally can't beat the 1% conversion fee and the interbank exchange rate.
But I have decided to modify this policy in light of the fact that credit card #s are easily stolen from receipts, particularly in foreign countries where they still print your name and full account # on the receipt.
Not to mention that my bank (like many) charges a $1.50 ATM withdrawal fee, which on a $150 withdrawal is equivalent to the 1% visa/mc conversion fee.
So I would recommend:
(1) Use your MC/VI card only at reputable establishments, avoiding merchants of unknown veracity or places where there is a higher risk of theft.
(2) Use the ATM to w/d as much cash as you are comfortable carrying, while keeping in mind that you will lose a hefty % if you need to re-exchange at the end of your trip.
(3) Avoid amex like the plague, they assess a hidden fee by jacking up the exchange
rate (before they assess the "2% fee"). Plus, most merchants outside the US hate amex because their fees are higher.
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Do these policies apply to Canada too? How about Discover Card in Canada?
Thanks...
I found this on Discover.com
General
Q: When I make a purchase in a foreign currency, how will it appear on my statement?
A: When your purchase originates in a foreign currency, there will be a two-line description of the transaction. The first line will include the name and location of the merchant, as well as the amount of the transaction in U.S. dollars. The second line will list the amount of the transaction in the foreign currency, as well as the rate of exchange used to convert the sale. The exchange rate will be the published rate on the processing date. There are no currency conversion fees.
[This message has been edited by jen80370 (edited Dec 01, 2003).]
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Just returned from Europe and would recoment not using the Bank of America Visa. It appears that the fee is 3%. In addition to the built in fees there is a seperate fee on your statement for Currency Conversion. ATM (cash)or Diners seems to have worked the best for me.
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I was in France most of last month and used my British Airways (Bank One) Visa. I'm soured on the BA frequent flyer program and only use awards now on their partners (AA) but I've kept this card because it still seems only to add the standard one per cent surcharge. My other miles-earning cards (Amex, Citi Visa) just don't get used abroad anymore.