Question
over the last few years I have been growing little lumps just under the skin,mainly on my arms, chest,neck and back, most of them are only 1/4 inch diameter although some are as large as 6". now I have about 35-40
the surgeons cut out 2 from my back and under my arm where they where irritating due to the driving position,
my doctor when I went back stated that they were "only fibroids" and to ignore them.
my question is what are Fibroids and how do I avoid getting more and stop the b$%$$"!s I already got growing bigger?
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The knack of flying is learning how to throw yourself at the floor and miss! (Hitchikers guide to the galaxy)
this post was submitted by RIKKI the terminally confused one.. http://www.now.at/heavy.haul
Answer
Hi Rikki,
Now this is an interesting question and one that I am going to have to research.
When I first saw the topic of this post I thought of the fibroid tumors women get in the abdominal cavity.
But the ones you are refering to are located throughout your body and are visible just under the skin.
Like I said, I am going to research this and get back to you on it.
I will tell you this much, about 8 years ago, my significant other had a spontaneous pneumothorax (Collapsed lung for no apparent reason). In the hospital, they inserted a chest tube between his ribs and into the chest wall to re-expand the lung. He was home within 6 days and shortly after this he began developing the fibroids all over his upper body. He has about 30 of them. The doctors said the same thing. Just fibroids, nothing to worry about unless they cause discomfort. They do not seem to bother him unless he is ill with a virus. Then they get a little larger and are tender to the touch.
They almost act like lymph nodes in that respect. But we have never been concerned about them, so I never researched the exact cause.
I will now though and I will get back to you with whatever I can dig up.
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Keeping you safe, healthy, and on the road.
Nurse Red
Visit us at www.Truck.net/abmsVisit us at
Answer
Thank you... I await with interest your research.... it seeems to much of a co-incidence that the fibroids I have, appeared after recieving surgery to remove some metal fragments from my chest and stomach. is it possible that they are actually caused by the surgery?
Answer
See below.
[This message has been edited by newyorktwo (edited March 28, 2000).]
Answer
Here's some scoop on fibroids. Interesting critters. "The Lancet" volume 354 23 October 99 had an article summed up as follows:
Leimyomas, or uterine fibroids are the leading reason for hysterectomies. There was a big conference in the USA on this subject Oct 7-8 1999. The experts mentioned to which you might sek advice were Dr George Stencil M.D., University of Texas Med School (ascular factors), Dr. Cynthia Morton and Dr. Ramona Nowak (Brigham and Woman's Hospital, Boston Ma., Dr. Janet Anderson (SUNY Stonybrook NY USA)
There is controversy over how they start but some feel they come from injury to a single muscle cell. They can grow big, so you have to monitor and watch em. The biggest on record is 330 pounds. [IMG]http://www.truck.net/bbs/eek.gif[/IMG] Of course that was before modern medical treatment and a one in a gazillian situation. There is a definite genetic predisposition, and higher proportions in some ethnic groups.
Different schools of thought as to what to do with them depending on the physicians rice-bowl. In general, if they aren't causing any trouble leave em alone. Moniter by non-invasive non-harmful means. There are better techniques than x-rays. There is a co-factor, howeer. That is estrogen.
That is to say you require the injury and the estrogen for the things to grow. Now what you are thinking is female, estrogen, well I'm stuck. Aha. The estrogen co-factor may come from plastics, including drinking and using plastic cups and plastic utensils. It seems a chemical solvent used in plastic manufacture is very similar to estrogen and it migrates to the drinking water and anything packaged in plastic. That means you should not be drinking bottled water in plastic. I had a conversation with a doctor friend tonight and he agreed with this. He is also of the opinion, interestingly, that children should never drink out of plastic containers because this chemical can affect their sexuality. I have a few research articles on the subject bouncing around in my closet I may post if I find em.
Vitamin E is said by naturopaths to hamper fibroid growth. Increase consumption of plant foods. Avoid any animal treated with growth hormone. Consume small to medium amounts of fat and meat. Avoid food sprayed with pesticides and herbicides. These suggestions will reduce circulating levels of estrogen.
Conventional medical treatment includes surgery, LHRH - antagonists, Danozol, an androgenic agonist, GnRH agonists given by intramuscular injection, and they all have side effects and sometimes the tumor comes back. Arghh. The fibroids usually come in clumps and in general you simply have to moniter, moniter, moniter. The volume of the fibroid is the indice. They are benign, but of course any tumor MUST be evaluated by a physician.
There are several theories, one of which is that they are a body repair process which doesn't shut off because it keeps getting a chemical signal the repair is not complete. Another theory suggests a genetic flaw in a part of the cell known as the telomere. Telomeres are interesting and I may do a post one day because they are very involved in aging processes. Anyway every species has a telomere number and a part of the telomere breaks off after every cell replication. The telomeres are part of the signaling system that tell the cell when to replicate. Only cancer cells have non-functioning telomeres.
A Dr. Leonard Hayflick one of the world's telomere experts.
They have also used a technique known as percutaneous laser ablation with magnetic resonance thermal imaging to provide followup. Some doctors try a technique called embolisation. Use your computer to find MEDLINE which is sponsored by the U.S. government and do a search of your own on conventional treatments. If they don't bother you, I'd just leave them alone.
Yes, they could have been caused by the surgery. This doesn't mean the surgeons were in any negligent. The body reacts to foreign antigens by several systems and one of which is nodular encapsulization. I looked into the 1930's research on tuberculosis and some of the nodules (TB was not always in the lungs) resemble fibroids. Which brings out a very long shot. You might want to get a TB test. If you have a nodule removed the 1930's test was to grind up the nodule and inject it into a guinea pig, which would develop TB if there was any in the nodule. TB is another subject I intend to post on one of these days. The body surrounds bad bacteria that float around and sometimes with other foreign materials introduced into the blood system.
[This message has been edited by newyorktwo (edited March 28, 2000).]
Answer
Here's some scoop on fibroids. Interesting critters. "The Lancet" volume 354 23 October 99 had an article summed up as follows:
Leimyomas, or uterine fibroids are the leading reason for hysterectomies. There was a big conference in the USA on this subject Oct 7-8 1999. The experts mentioned to which you might sek advice were Dr George Stencil M.D., University of Texas Med School (ascular factors), Dr. Cynthia Morton and Dr. Ramona Nowak (Brigham and Woman's Hospital, Boston Ma., Dr. Janet Anderson (SUNY Stonybrook NY USA)
There is controversy over how they start but some feel they come from injury to a single muscle cell. They can grow big, so you have to monitor and watch em. The biggest on record is 330 pounds. [IMG]http://www.truck.net/bbs/eek.gif[/IMG] Of course that was before modern medical treatment and a one in a gazillian situation. There is a definite genetic predisposition, and higher proportions in some ethnic groups.
Different schools of thought as to what to do with them depending on the physicians rice-bowl. In general, if they aren't causing any trouble leave em alone. Moniter by non-invasive non-harmful means. There are better techniques than x-rays. There is a co-factor, howeer. That is estrogen.
That is to say you require the injury and the estrogen for the things to grow. Now what you are thinking is female, estrogen, well I'm stuck. Aha. The estrogen co-factor may come from plastics, including drinking and using plastic cups and plastic utensils. It seems a chemical solvent used in plastic manufacture is very similar to estrogen and it migrates to the drinking water and anything packaged in plastic. That means you should not be drinking bottled water in plastic. I had a conversation with a doctor friend tonight and he agreed with this. He is also of the opinion, interestingly, that children should never drink out of plastic containers because this chemical can affect their sexuality. I have a few research articles on the subject bouncing around in my closet I may post if I find em.
Vitamin E is said by naturopaths to hamper fibroid growth. Increase consumption of plant foods. Avoid any animal treated with growth hormone. Consume small to medium amounts of fat and meat. Avoid food sprayed with pesticides and herbicides. These suggestions will reduce circulating levels of estrogen.
Conventional medical treatment includes surgery, LHRH - antagonists, Danozol, an androgenic agonist, GnRH agonists given by intramuscular injection, and they all have side effects and sometimes the tumor comes back. Arghh. The fibroids usually come in clumps and in general you simply have to moniter, moniter, moniter. The volume of the fibroid is the indice. They are benign, but of course any tumor MUST be evaluated by a physician.
There are several theories, one of which is that they are a body repair process which doesn't shut off because it keeps getting a chemical signal the repair is not complete. Another theory suggests a genetic flaw in a part of the cell known as the telomere. Telomeres are interesting and I may do a post one day because they are very involved in aging processes. Anyway every species has a telomere number and a part of the telomere breaks off after every cell replication. The telomeres are part of the signaling system that tell the cell when to replicate. Only cancer cells have non-functioning telomeres.
A Dr. Leonard Hayflick one of the world's telomere experts.
They have also used a technique known as percutaneous laser ablation with magnetic resonance thermal imaging to provide followup. Some doctors try a technique called embolisation. Use your computer to find MEDLINE which is sponsored by the U.S. government and do a search of your own on conventional treatments. If they don't bother you, I'd just leave them alone.
Yes, they could have been caused by the surgery. This doesn't mean the surgeons were in any negligent. The body reacts to foreign antigens by several systems and one of which is nodular encapsulization. I looked into the 1930's research on tuberculosis and some of the nodules (TB was not always in the lungs) resemble fibroids. Which brings out a very long shot. You might want to get a TB test. If you have a nodule removed the 1930's test was to grind up the nodule and inject it into a guinea pig, which would develop TB if there was any in the nodule. TB is another subject I intend to post on one of these days. The body surrounds bad bacteria that float around and sometimes with other foreign materials introduced into the blood system.
[This message has been edited by newyorktwo (edited March 28, 2000).]
Answer
Well, the plastic theory may be a contributing factor in my significant other's case as he had a chest tube (plastic) residing in his chest for several days. Now, I wonder if the surgery Rikki is talking about required any indwelling plastic apparatus. By the way Rikki, how did you get metal shrapnel in your chest to start with?
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Keeping you safe, healthy, and on the road.
Nurse Red
Visit us at www.Truck.net/abmsVisit us at
Answer
NY2 .. thank you for a well informed answer..as i said they do not bother me too much ...but Over here we find that the medical profession tell us what we need to know rather than the full story... thats what comes of having a free but overstretched health service!!!
Nurse Red ... I recieved some mortarfragments in my stomach and chest in 1982 in the south atlantic..,. causing a collapsed lung i had my lung ventilated? through a tube.. which may be similar to a drain? ... I still ocasionally have very small peices of metalwork there way to the surface of my stomach and chest and appear as Spots!!! till i squeeze them... and yes I know not to squeeze ... but the temptation... you now
[This message has been edited by RIKKI-UK (edited March 29, 2000).]
Answer
Ow, you have my sympathies.
1982 reads Falklands and that sounds like Argentine ammunition. The 81 mm's they used, if I recall, were manufactured under licence from TDA of France. The body and tail units were of steel. Nothing too exotic. They were filled with 2 kg of TNT or comp B. The comp B sometimes low-ordered due to age which meant you could have traces of unexploded explosive adhering to the fragment. Fragments they are and not shrapnel, which is a different category. They also used ammo for Brandt/TDA mortars with forged steel bodies and aluminum fin casings. The aluminum tends not to show up well on x-rays. As you know, the series also include white phosphorus in the M80 series. The fuzes used by the Argentine army were the FMK13's or TDA V19P's. Don't lash me to the wall if I'm a digit off. It's been a long time. Contrary to popular belief the fuzes son't simply dematerialize, but large parts often end up in parts of the human anatomy. TNT was a common filler and is a nitrate based explosive that if fragmented does not cause significant problems, unless the filled has been contaminated.
Steel and forged steel in the shell body tends to oxide over the years and rust. Some tiny fragments simply disappear over the years. The aluminum fragments would form an oxide coating which would prevent them from further deterioration. Trace explosive attached to the fragment is another issue however.
The Argentines also used an assault mortar, 60mm produced in Rio Tercaro that contained 250 g of either TNT or RDX. RDX is a more toxic animal. These mortars used heat-treated forged steel bodies that should not provide significant toxicity in an of themselves in a fragmented form.
Some mortars such as the Israeli 52mm MK2 use a serated spirally wound coil, which is the bad news bears. These were used in Soltam mortars which were ex-british 2 inch.
United Kingdom mortar shells have used many combinations but a mix of TNT/RDX is popular. I actually might have the MSDA on both TNT and RDX lying around in my closet. Having a piece of fuze fragment inside you is a little different than having a sidewall because some parts will not show on a radiograph. Debri, particuliarly from clothing, is commonly carried into the body cavity.
If the shells were detonated say as part of a bomb disposal project they tend not to sympathetically detonate and you will most likely have had significant portions of explosive adhering to the fragment.
So migration of miscroscopic bits of toxic explosive which then become encapsulated is another scenario. Supposing the particle is TNT, or trinitrotoluene. There is a study by McCormick on the reduction of TNT which suggests incomplete reduction of the nitro group over a long period of time. Carcinogenicity of nitro and amino compounds is believed to occur as a result of metabolic activation of a reactive electrophilic species. And this mess in turns may react and alkylate genetic material, specifically destroying telomeres. Translation: Minute specs of TNT can probably cause development of tumors, not necessarily malignant.
You might want to contact the Armed Forces Institute of Pathology at Walter Reed Medical Center. They have a tremendous medical library devoted specifically to the progression and outcome of war time fragmentation injuries.
[This message has been edited by newyorktwo (edited March 29, 2000).]
Answer
I had coffee with a doctor friend last night and discussed your problem. I learned how little I know about fibroids. He mentioned a half dozen different sub-classifications and told me the diagnosis of "Fibroid" was meaningless. He suggested if you have one removed have it sent to a good facility that has a lab that specializes in fibroids. He confirmed that they can start from injury or from encapsulization of debri foreign matter or bacteria.
We also discussed Coley therapy, which incidentally is now under trials in New York for treatment of melanomas.
Coley therapy involves injection of vaccines.
Some tumors, both benign and malignant, especially encapsulated tumors shrink or disappear under this treatment.
Every time a human being is injected with a vaccine something called "Tumoragenic Necrosis Factor" is generated. Ten to twenty percent of tumors will shrink or disappear under such therapy.
Check with your doctor. You need to go on a diet for a period of at least three months free from meat (fish are fine if from deep water) and generally organic (free from pestcides) and of course drink nothing in plastic. And during this period take no aspirin. You do not want to take anti-inflammatorys of any kind because they dampen production of TNF.
Incidentally, my doctor friend did not believe a single insertion of a plastic chest tube would cause a tumor. He said it was more likely from probe injury or encapsulatization of bacterial or foreign matter invasion.
You go to the Physicians Desk Reference (there is one in the United Kingdom) and you look under: "Killed Bacterial Vaccines".
You fib and tell the doctors that you want to take a trip to Africa where these vaccines are required. Get a WHO (World Health Organization) vaccine card. Modern vaccines have few side effects, but of course with any injection there is minor risk.
Every week for six weeks get a different vaccine injection. Re-evaluate your tumor volume at the end of two months. You will either have a dramatic shrinkage or disappearance of the fibroid or nothing will happen.
If you want to do some medical research on your own search: "Tumerogenic Necrosis Factor". They manufacture it for injection but it is hazardous, very expensive and has side effects. You can produce much of the same effect with vaccines very inexpensively.
[This message has been edited by newyorktwo (edited March 30, 2000).]
Answer
And I had still another conversation with a naturopathic physician regarding fibroids. His suggestion was to ask if the patient had been using licorice or ginsing. It seems these two products are sources of estrogenic activity and, according to him, promote growth of fibroids.
Answer
I Know that is is an ancient post
but this year the porblem has finally been diagnosed,
It is an untreatable non life threatening condition called Dercums Syndrome, as far as the medics can tell it's nothing to do with any previous injury, and probably genetic,
It is so rare that no-one is doing any worthwhile research into it, and even rarer for me as it normally affects post menopausal overweight females,