Question
Recently we have been informed that we must provide our employer a list of ALL perscription medications that we take. This list will be examined by the Safety Dept. and a determination will be made with regards to our continued employment.
So far they have suspended a driver for the use of an SSRI antidepressent and another for the use of beta blocker for hypertension. They claim that both can cause drowsiness and as such cannot be used.
There is allegedly a "list" of prohibited medications, but they will not publish it because "ther everyone would just deny taking them". They have also invoked the issues of "medical privacy" and the "Patriot act".
I cannot find any regualtions that would support my employers policy. I also question telling the company DOT physical provider, as they send a copy of the "long form" to the terminal manager, which lists the medications on it.
I feel that this is an invasion of privacy and a failure to maintain confedentiality of medical information, possibly covered under the HIPPA.
I would not have an issue with confidentially telling the DOT medical examiner what I take, with an eye towards the medical practitioner making a determination regarding safety, however, I don't see why my boss hass to know that I have "insert disease here".
Any opinions and or supporting citations????
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Answer
But given the fact that your company is responsible for knowing that their drivers are safe on the road, they have a right to this info and to make their decisions accordingly.
You have the right to a hearing by the DOT if you disagree with their actions. (See Resolution of Conflict on our web page).
There really is no defined list. The regs define it as any med that causes drowsiness, change in mental status, etc. which may render you unsafe to operate a CMV. A letter from the prescribing physician indicating that they are aware of your job responsibilites and that they feel you are safe to operate CMV on this med. It may help.
Keeping you safe, healthy and on the road.
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Answer
So basicly, they can fire or refuse to hire anyone for taking ANY prescription medication. Every pill that can be placed in your body lists drowsiness as a possible side effect.
Hell of a racket you guys have created there.
Who needs the mafia when you get the Government, private industry and the professions working together!!!
Thanks for the response. I'll go looking for a legal point of view now.
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
[This message was edited by Ron C. on October 26, 2003 at 9:41.]
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The successful resolution to the problem of your Employer wanting or needing to know what Drugs you are taking is this. Keep your mouth shut. Tell no one & most of all do not tell the doctor performing the DOT Physical. Force them to find out. Don't make their job easy. Do not loose your income because you want to do the right thing. Or maybe they will pay your bills while you appeal their decision that put you in the unemployment line. You are already being dealt a stacked deck. Why help them deal it?
[This message was edited by Dagwood on October 27, 2003 at 1:51.]
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Talk about risking your income!!!!!
Get caught up in a drug test, or a post-accident investigation and let them find out you were on medication that you didn't reveal!!!!
You will be out of a job and with a potential lawsuit on your hands which the company will wash their hands of.
This is terrible advice.
Keeping you safe, healthy and on the road.
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Answer
I dunno, works for me!!
They aren't going to find something like BP meds or Prozac unless they are really looking for them, and they wont if no one points them in that dtrection.
If they do, in the case of an accident, I think a half decent lawyer could make the fact that Driver A takes BP meds with no side effects, so who cares.
The alternitive is unemployment right now.
Glad it's not my decision to make.
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Answer
Many folks in Occupational Medicine complain that they get no respect.
Perhaps it is because it is the only medical speciality that owes it's FIRST full time allegiance to the party paying the bills, as opposed to the patient. Not to say that Occ Med types do anything wrong to their patients (or more appropriately clients), but i think medicine looses out when the patient isn't put first.
And no, I don't have a better idea.
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Answer
Regarding medications. The FAA has a list of what medications it finds acceptable for persons requesting airman medical certificates (flight physicals). Seems to me, if a drug is safe enough to fly a 747 with 500 people on board, it should be OK for driving.
Regarding physicals. These seems to be some blurring of the lines when a driver goes for their "DOT physical". Many times drivers are disqualified by the examining practitioner not because they failed to meet the minimum standards in the FMCSR, but because they do not meet the individual companys guidelines. Now to hire or not to hire is an HR decision, but if a driver passes the DOT requirements, they should be informed of this by the examining practitioner, and offered an oppourtunity to pay for the physical themselves if they want the card.
This matter will be the subject of a letter writing campaign to the DOT and my elected representatives.
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Answer
Originally posted by Ron C.:
I dunno, works for me!!
They aren't going to find something like BP meds or Prozac unless they are really looking for them, and they wont if no one points them in that dtrection.
If they do, in the case of an accident, I think a half decent lawyer could make the fact that Driver A takes BP meds with no side effects, so who cares.
The alternitive is unemployment right now.
Glad it's not my decision to make.
__"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering__
I agree with you. They will not find most legal scrip drugs because they are not lookin for them. Also a good attorney will win your case for you most of the time. Some of What Nurse Red says is true & she has been very helpful in the past. But I still will take the same position I posted earlier. Besides, if you tell them up front about what you take, you most likely will loose your job & income. If you don't you still have a job. Maybe you get caught down the road, so, why hurry the prospect of being un-employed.
Answer
If you are involved in a serious accident, the attorneys can and will subpeona your medical records. Not just the ones your company had possession of but your regular Dr. as well. Go ahead, get caught taking meds you didn't tell the company about......
Many times, it is an insurance company making the call about what they accept and don't accept on a physical exam and under the medication category.
There is also a board of physicians who advise the DOT in regards to what should be accepted on physical exams and it differs for each modality (FAA, FHWA, FMSCA, RAilroad, Coast Guard, etc). The rest of us OCC Med people are REQUIRED to follow these guidelines and regs. Sorry, but we are controlled just as much as you are and not necessarily by the employer.
Many drivers do opt to pay for their own physical exams, but still must submit them to some company who then determines whether they will accept it or not. Many companies will not accept a physical by any other physician other than those they contract with. It won't matter if you had a physical yesterday. They won't accept it.
And here's one more fact for you. If we do some half baked physical exam and the driver goes out the next day and strokes out at the wheel, killing a family in a mini-van, guess who's head is on the block right behind the company? There's some food for thought, HMMMM?
Keeping you safe, healthy and on the road.
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Answer
If you are involved in a serious accident, the attorneys can and will subpeona your medical records. Not just the ones your company had possession of but your regular Dr. as well. Go ahead, get caught taking meds you didn't tell the company about......
Keep the information to yourself. What are they going to do?? Subpeona every doctor in a 50 mile radius of your house to find the one that has your records??
And here's one more fact for you. If we do some half baked physical exam and the driver goes out the next day and strokes out at the wheel, killing a family in a mini-van, guess who's head is on the block right behind the company? There's some food for thought, HMMMM?
And heres a fact for you. Company A accepts a driver that has well controlled hypertension and oral med controlled diabetes.
Company B accepts only grade A, healthy physical specimens.
The same driver is on the road, just with another name on the door.
So the dead family in the mini van arguement is a moot point, isn't it.
Don't feel too bad. When I was a Paramedic, I used to rationalize all the time. Helps, doesn't it??
Now.......... You want to talk "half baked"?? How about a profession that will defend the overly restrictive hiring practices of one client, but readily sign their name and reputation to the less restrictive policies of another??
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering
Answer
Originally posted by Ron C.:
Keep the information to yourself. What are they going to do?? Subpeona every doctor in a 50 mile radius of your house to find the one that has your records??
No, probably not, but they are going to probably ask you under oath in a deposition if you are on any type of medication, as well as any and all doctors, hospitals, etc that you have seen for treatment in that last year, and if you get caught lying there goes any and all credibility you have when it goes to trial.
Then again they might, with the potential of several million dollars riding on proving a case.
I will always be a mutter trucker at heart.
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Obviously, you have no idea how easily your medical records can be found and subpoenad into court. All they have to do is see who the health insurance carrier for your company is.
How do you think they catch these people on work comp fraud and find ALL the frivolous cases they have ever filed????
Whether we condone a company's practice of using higher guidelines or not, we are payed to conduct the physical under their requirments. Now if they are trying to relax the regs, we won't have anything to do with that. But we have no right to tell a company that they cannot raise their expectations. That is why the regs have the RESOLUTION OF CONFLICT procedures written in. DUH!
As long as a driver meets the minimum requirements as written in the regs, a company MAY hire them. However, a company MAY place tighter restrictions on those drivers if they wish and it is also within regs and the Americans with Disability's act, and so on and so forth.
When I refer to a half baked physical, I am talking about one where the exam is not truly done in acoordance with the regs, just rubber stamped. Now that does NOT make the family in the minivan a moot point, does it?
Keeping you safe, healthy and on the road.
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Answer
I seen a lot of questions and no direct answers, So here's another. I've been taking paxcil cr 75 mg. for over a year now.. Unfortunaly I still had a mental breakdown in June of this year. I've been off work on medical leave since,trying different anti depressents,all to no avail. Now I'm back on paxil cr,@ 75 mg. a day. I'm also taking Risperdal, 1 mg a day when I sleep,and also now taking valium. Yhe valium has worked great, no drowsiness associated with it's use. It was prescribed by my phivcision..
Will I be legal driving now with these drugs in my system. I'll return to driving in another month and will be required to another drug test.
Whats your opinion again??
Thank you
G.
Answer
If your doctor has your SSN, and he has turned your SSN into a insurance company or his hospitial is hooked up to a national chain. If you’re ever in a situation where you have lawyers digging they will run your SSN through the insurance companys and the national chains.
The only way to fly under the radar is a small practice paid in cash, you also have to be aware of where and how you purchase the medication I.E if you pay by credit card or have a prescription card then your in the system.
Depending on your situation and medication you may be able to get hooked up in Mexico. or via a overseas mail order (use money orders), however if they are digging hard enough they will subpeona your internet provider and will see what websites you have been to so be careful where you shop and what you say. in forums. A post you make today could be incriminating evidence tomorrow. (Yeah its a little paranoid or would be if it wasn’t true)
Just remember the rules of the game.... if your SSN is in a computer you can be caught easily, if your name and address is in a computer you can be caught with slightly more time invested (less than a week),http://www.harrybrown.org/articles/LandOfFree.htm